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Dear all balaced headphone wanna be head-fier...

post #1 of 108
Thread Starter 
you can archive the balanced benefit from the system at certain level without requiring re-terminating your headphone cable. And it really sounds a lot better compared to conventional stereo jack output.

This method doesn't sound exactly as good as pure balanced system but still a lot better than running from unbalanced setup so my encouragement is to get balanced amplifier eventough your headphone isn't pure balanced recabled.

Hope this is clear to all you guys and please stop bashing balanced/unbalanced dream competition. I already have k1000, running from balanced system and it works well

My test system is
Source: Linn Genki (Modded) as transport using AES (from modded ones)
DAC/Amp: grace m902b (modded and have balanced upgrade)
Headphone: k1000 (for direct comparison using adaptors but well, that alone can't drive to its potential without Firstwatt F1), DX1000
post #2 of 108
So, how about telling us which gear you used for the test?
Headphone(s), amplifier(s), source, and like...
post #3 of 108
Interesting argument nonetheless.
Still seems like it would make enough sense to have it recabled to balanced if your going to have a balanced amp made, thereby reducing the amount of plugs, solder points, median (air) junctions, etc. Especially if one is going to recable the headphone anyways.

Dave
post #4 of 108
Im not normally a balanced purist (I once heard someone say there is only 1 phase in the recroding, so its not balanced, thanks.) but at the same time am not a single ended (unbalanced, unadequate) purist either. both designs have their advantages and can be combined to a certain extent with great success if care is taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
You don't need to re-terminate your headphone cable with separated xlr jack to get fully balanced.
how do you get the "opposite" phase of 2 channels through 1 connector?
Quote:
Because the benefit for balanced headphone (or maybe head-fier who tends to use headphone directly from preamp's rca jack) is sepearated ground channel, meaning left and right channel will have its own ground.
my headphones are not grounded when running balanced. They are at ground potential, but both ends of the driver are driven out of phase. same as everyone else running balanced.
Quote:
I did some experiments with my balanced system having stereo to xlr adaptor and balanced headphone set. Sound quality from stereo headphone with adaptor is almost insignificant to balanced ones using same kinds of cable. Why?
I dont doubt your impressions, but stating that a 2 channel balanced signal (actually 4 signals) can get through a single 3-connector plug is irresponsibly inaccurate. you can get very good sound from well designed and built single ended (unbalanced) amplifiers, but you can not get a balanced stereo signal through a single TRS plug.
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Because that little crosstalk is really minor issue.
who cares?
single ended amps have been posting crosstalk numbers in the -100 db and better ranges since the first scientific measurements were made on cmoys.
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Could you notice the difference in k701 that has extended length for right channel and its ground? No...right?
I agree, the last foot of cable makes little diffference. Its actually the steel wires in the headband and a few inches of cable BTW.
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So how could such little ground that is combined for just from one jack to another jack make so big differance, no way! What matters for balanced are beginning and end part (and separated ground as much as possible but 99% and 100% seperation wont make day and night)
I think you are very confused in what balanced operation entails.

Balanced operation means that both ends of the headphone are driven by an equally opposite signal (180* out of phase, equal amplitude)
Balanced operation has some measurable benefits compared to single ended (without active ground channel)
better slew rate,
more voltage swing
more current output
even order harmonic distortions cancel across the load.
the first 3 dont really apply to headphones, but here they are for completeness.
The last one can be a substantial benefit when you look at the harmonic spectrum from most triodes... LOTS of 2nd, a little third, a chunk of 4'th...

now, i mentioned "without active ground channel" above. With an active ground channel a single ended amp can "pick up" the advantages to reducing distortions. Check that out.
Quote:
Even if you have ground channel combined for very short distance, transfer speed wont be reduced at significant level. In short, it has very little effects to sound since speed is barely noticable (or maybe my placebo trying to make difference)
strawman?
Transmission speeds in wire are insignificant. You however have not mentioned the impedance of a wire, which is important (theoretically)
post #5 of 108
Thread Starter 
OK. I'll clear this up again.

ground = inverted phase signal sending from headphone back to its source like amplifier. It has no orpposition with signal phase that carries music besides controlling feedback speed which is almost insignificant because you just wrap inverted phase up at point near the end which won't make big difference compared to re-terminated xlr jack. You can try and see results for yourself but what I found is

re-terminated balanced headphone = 100% satisfaction
unbalanced headphone with stereo jack = 60% satisfaction
balanced headphone using adaptor = 90-95% satisfaction

See what I mean? your headphone won't be modified. You'll get sound quality pretty close to real balanced headphone. And yes, I also consider about impedance but that part didn't make much sense for balance and unbalanced signal carrier theory.
post #6 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
OK. I'll clear this up again.

ground = inverted phase signal sending from headphone back to its source like amplifier. It has no orpposition with signal phase that carries music besides controlling feedback speed which is almost insignificant because you just wrap inverted phase up at point near the end which won't make big difference compared to re-terminated xlr jack. You can try and see results for yourself but what I found is
No - read what people above have already stated. Balanced means 4 channels, 2 for each driver 180 degrees out of phase of each other.

You can not have a single channel driven 180 degress out of phase of 2 other channels, just does not work. If you do not understand what something is please do not try and spread mis-information.

Not really sure what your point is in this post. Running a balanced setup is pretty expensive endeavor, and it has nothing to do with the minimal cost of terminating the headphones.
post #7 of 108
changed my mind ....


post #8 of 108
If you guys ever recall/search for the OP's past threads/posts, you will know why people don't take him seriously...or at all.
post #9 of 108
Look like the OP still haven't got the glue of exactly what balanced means.
post #10 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
LOL

Dave
post #11 of 108
I don't have any nice pics to show, but I'd like to echo the epic fail comments thus far.
post #12 of 108
This does not make any sense.

If you've already invested in the significant outlay of a balanced amp, why skimp on headphone cables? Anything with dual entry can simply be reterminated, and even single-entry phones aren't too hard to convert.

Basically, what you're saying is that when you convert a balanced amp to SE, it sounds almost as good. Good for you, you have inadvertently proved the law of diminishing returns.
post #13 of 108
OP, are you included in the target of the thread title?
post #14 of 108
So most of the stated factors above can actually be measured with the proper tools. Individuals will most likely not have them, but I bet a lot of the manufacturers do, especially for testing purposes. Has any hard data been shown comparing the two?
post #15 of 108
I don't get it!
Why drop out the last part (cable connector), when you already have a balanced amplifier (4 channel)?

/me think the OP have not read his balanced audio homework!
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