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Phonak Audeo - Grey or Black Filters? - Page 2

post #16 of 58
Bump for more poll results!
post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confispect View Post
I use no filters more detail it's bright but not fatiguing. But I prefer the grey ones.
Wow wouldnt it be too loud and devour all the details? Never tried it yet.
post #18 of 58
I use grey filters and black olives: very nice sounding treble (especially for vocals) and tight/punchy bass.
post #19 of 58
My theory of the purpose of the gray and black filters...

I've had my PFE for a couple weeks and recently grabbed a pair of ER4S earphones. I've been swapping back and forth and playing with the filters. I've also looked at both earphone's frequency response graphs and even overlayed them:



Now Etymotic incorporates the midrange peak to offset what our ears do. The end perception (for the common man) should be flat. The PFE mimics the ER4S response closely with the gray filter. I assume PFE was also tested on a KEMAR® manikin.

"Target Curve
Target curves on Etymotic Research graphs indicate 100% accuracy: The open ear diffuse-field response of the KEMAR® manikin modified to compensate for the high frequency boost added to high-quality recordings. This modification (approximately 5 dB at 10 kHz) is necessary to avoid earphones sounding too bright on commercial recordings. Commercial recordings have a high-frequency boost that compensates for the high frequency roll-off in studio monitor loudspeakers and high-quality stereo loudspeakers and earphones."

Because of the way the PFE mimics the same response, I assume the PFE was also developed in a very similar way. The PFE has a little more bass emphasis but otherwise follows the ER4S up to 10kHz. The perceived response should be flat, in theory, using the gray filter.

The black filter is a partial cut of that. Maybe it's the best true flat representation or simply an option for folks wanting a stronger bass emphasis.

I just thought the similarity between the PFE and ER4S in response was interesting. It shows they both seem to be aiming for the same end goal.
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
My theory of the purpose of the gray and black filters...

I've had my PFE for a couple weeks and recently grabbed a pair of ER4S earphones. I've been swapping back and forth and playing with the filters. I've also looked at both earphone's frequency response graphs and even overlayed them:



Now Etymotic incorporates the midrange peak to offset what our ears do. The end perception (for the common man) should be flat. The PFE mimics the ER4S response closely with the gray filter. I assume PFE was also tested on a KEMAR® manikin.

"Target Curve
Target curves on Etymotic Research graphs indicate 100% accuracy: The open ear diffuse-field response of the KEMAR® manikin modified to compensate for the high frequency boost added to high-quality recordings. This modification (approximately 5 dB at 10 kHz) is necessary to avoid earphones sounding too bright on commercial recordings. Commercial recordings have a high-frequency boost that compensates for the high frequency roll-off in studio monitor loudspeakers and high-quality stereo loudspeakers and earphones."

Because of the way the PFE mimics the same response, I assume the PFE was also developed in a very similar way. The PFE has a little more bass emphasis but otherwise follows the ER4S up to 10kHz. The perceived response should be flat, in theory, using the gray filter.

The black filter is a partial cut of that. Maybe it's the best true flat representation or simply an option for folks wanting a stronger bass emphasis.

I just thought the similarity between the PFE and ER4S in response was interesting. It shows they both seem to be aiming for the same end goal.
My findings are similar. Going back and forth between PFEs ER-4Ss, it's easy to notice quite a bit of similarities, even with ER-4P for that matter. They both seem to be going for a quite linear frequency response. I'd give a prop to ER-4S for it's wider soundstage and clarity but when not critically listened, it's very hard to notice the differences between the two.
post #21 of 58
I like the grey filters, but they can be sibilant with my 4G Nano headphone out (or Nuforce Icon Mobile) which then do better with the black filters.
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
My theory of the purpose of the gray and black filters...

I've had my PFE for a couple weeks and recently grabbed a pair of ER4S earphones. I've been swapping back and forth and playing with the filters. I've also looked at both earphone's frequency response graphs and even overlayed them:



Now Etymotic incorporates the midrange peak to offset what our ears do. The end perception (for the common man) should be flat. The PFE mimics the ER4S response closely with the gray filter. I assume PFE was also tested on a KEMAR® manikin.

"Target Curve
Target curves on Etymotic Research graphs indicate 100% accuracy: The open ear diffuse-field response of the KEMAR® manikin modified to compensate for the high frequency boost added to high-quality recordings. This modification (approximately 5 dB at 10 kHz) is necessary to avoid earphones sounding too bright on commercial recordings. Commercial recordings have a high-frequency boost that compensates for the high frequency roll-off in studio monitor loudspeakers and high-quality stereo loudspeakers and earphones."

Because of the way the PFE mimics the same response, I assume the PFE was also developed in a very similar way. The PFE has a little more bass emphasis but otherwise follows the ER4S up to 10kHz. The perceived response should be flat, in theory, using the gray filter.

The black filter is a partial cut of that. Maybe it's the best true flat representation or simply an option for folks wanting a stronger bass emphasis.

I just thought the similarity between the PFE and ER4S in response was interesting. It shows they both seem to be aiming for the same end goal.
Good guess...

Here is what Phonak claims on their website:

When wearing Audéo PFE the ear canal is blocked and the function of the ear is changed:

1. The amplification of the pinna disappears.
2. The natural resonance of the ear canal disappears.

That has to be compensated by the earphone, so the target curve is theoretically the open ear transfer function, which corresponds to a flat curve in the free field and diffuse field:

Figure 1: Open ear simulator transfer function
The earphones must recreate these phenomena for the user to perceive a natural sound. Since each person has a different ear, the compensation curves should be different from one person to the other. Standard earphones do not take these factors into account, which makes Audeo PFE unique.

Internal studies at Phonak have shown that most people are not comfortable with a sound from an earphone that reproduces exactly the curve of a standard open ear. The curves of Audeo PFE are a compromise between a frequency response that includes the full open ear gain compensation as well as one that has bass and treble predominance. This compromise has been shown to produce greater satisfaction among test users, and therefore Audeo PFE offers two filter types to accommodate the widest range of user preference.
post #23 of 58
Thread Starter 
I preferred the Black Filter with Large Silicone Tips.

The Black Filters produced better separation / soundstage. Using the Silicone seems to bring up the highs a bit

The Grey Filters simply blended the whole presentation into one big mess.

I guess that is why there are options
post #24 of 58
There should be an option -apart from without filters- for don't know yet
post #25 of 58
has anyone tried 1 black and 1 grey -- could be interesting -- especially depending upon which you put on which side.
post #26 of 58
Grey filters with included medium silicone tips.
post #27 of 58
I´m on grey filters but never really thought about not using any lol
I´ll try and listen a bit with no filters to see how things come out. Another option )
post #28 of 58
Black, but by a SLIGHT margin.
gg
post #29 of 58
i prefer the blacks too
post #30 of 58

Just got a set of Phonaks in the mail today. Have to say, I'm amazed by how different the two filters sound. And how much LOUDER the grey filters are.

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