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RE0 rivals ER-4S, beats E500 and ER-4P - Page 5

post #61 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
I personally did not like the RE0 all that much. It does many things well, but it didn't do some things that I define as necessary or favorable.
RE0 is very tips-dependant, see OP, section "Multiple voices". As I can recall, you used RE0 with the tips which sound soft, relaxed, with lesser dynamics. So your familiarity with RE0 is incomplete.
post #62 of 112
PK2 and OK1 are all that I've used.

I've you've got the cash to spend, try out everything you can. If you don't, try one at a time, buy and then resell until you find one you are happy with. At the very least, read as much as you can about all the options and narrow down options that best fit your preferences in audio.
post #63 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChroniCali View Post
Anyone have reviews for RE0 vs PK1 purely SQ wise?
RE0 is utterly neutral and transparent, letting you listen straight to the rest of the chain. It does not need powerfull amping, but benefits of quality one.

PK1 is colored by V-shaped frequency response and have its own charming character. Its sound sig reigns over the rest of the rig. It benefits from additional power a lot.

You may find more info (mine and some other head-fiers PK1 reviews) following the link in my sig.
post #64 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostalex View Post
RE0 is utterly neutral and transparent, letting you listen straight to the rest of the chain. It does not need powerfull amping, but benefits of quality one.

PK1 is colored by V-shaped frequency response and have its own charming character. Its sound sig reigns over the rest of the rig. It benefits from additional power a lot.

You may find more info (mine and some other head-fiers PK1 reviews) following the link in my sig.
Yeah, I know I have the PK1 right now and I love them. Sounds like PK1 sound sig would still suit me better than RE0.
post #65 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChroniCali View Post
Yeah, I know I have the PK1 right now and I love them. Sounds like PK1 sound sig would still suit me better than RE0.
I also think you should keep it if you like it.

My updated ranking

I divide some of the cans I listened into the 3 classes - Hi-Fi, Mid-Fi and Low-Fi. I divide each class further with 3 levels:

H1 HD650, W5000, SR-404, ER-4S*
--- RE0 is here
H2 Denon D2000, AKG 701, W1000, E500
H3 DT880, ER-4P*
M1 DT990, AD1000, K501, Ergo 2, UM2, OK1
M2 DT770, SR225, HD595, AD900, K271, MDR-F1, E4c, PK1
M3 AD700, HD555, HD280, DT660, SR80, ER-6i
--- CM700 is here
L1 iGrado, A900, HD485, K181, E3c, UE 5 EB, OK2
L2 PortaPro, PX100, DT231, K81, D-Jays
L3 KSC-75, SportaPro, PXC 250, K27i, UE 3, E2c, CX300, modded Marshmallow
--- PK2 is here
the rest of the earbuds

*My ER-4P/S has soft silicone custom tips which sound MUCH better than any of the universal tips from Ety, Shure, Westone, Sleek-Audio (I tried all).
post #66 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChroniCali View Post
Wow... might have to try the RE0.
Anyone have reviews for RE0 vs PK1 purely SQ wise?
Not PK1 but OK1, and RE0 totally kills OK1 absolutely everywhere except soundstage. Here OK1 are unbeatable. After RE0, OK1 sounds muddy, with harsh, not well extended treble, much worse bass (also less extended), aggressive midrange - in short REO is another league IMO. Overall RE0 is much more balanced over the spectrum, and softer, less aggressive. But I still like OK1 for it's soundstage, and I still sometimes prefer it for acoustic music because of it.

I consider RE0 as a best IEM I heard so far (unamped).
post #67 of 112
i love the midbass and sound signature on the pk3, will the re-0 or pk1 better suit me?
post #68 of 112
Hmm, I don't get the love of the RE0. I understand why they're liked, but loved, I don't get it. Every earphone I've used I prefer over the RE0, even my Vibes which on a relative scale should be junk and is several levels down on some of the other earphone's I've tried. This is exactly why I sent mine back, because I could toss on my Vibes, listen, and say I like these better and these do things better then the RE0. How could I justify the RE0 after that?

The RE0 and OK1 are so vastly different from each other, large contrasts from each other. To compare them is more of a choice in personal preference. Even my comments above are personal preference.

RE0 - not transparent (one thing I wanted and didn't get)
RE0 - highs are not great, extended - yes, well defined and meaningful - not so much (one thing that bugged me)
RE0 - amp is beneficial, does lack some control and definition without.

OK1 - where's the mud? I can't find it.
OK1 - well presented highs, better then the RE0 (in my opinion), aggressive but far from harsh, more then some people will find comfortable, highs are better then the ER4S.
OK1 - assume unamped as well, can agree that they can be bright with lacking bass without an amp. They really need an amp to stay tonally even.
OK1 - agree that the RE0 will come across softer, more laid back, OK1 needs an amp to fill out and sound balanced above quiet levels

kostalex, seriously? I know you've used a ton of headphones too.

I really don't get it. It completely escapes me what you guys see. The ER4S is incredibly good, and you know it the instant you use it. The Phonak PFE is really good and instantly impressive to any first time listener. The OK1 is really good, albeit with a metal driver sound signature that may not fit some. The RE0 has me going ??? I tried to like it. I listened to a LOT of music, a wide variety, tried with and without the foam, EQed, and really tried to run the gambit. It's good and does certain things really well, but it never came across as an amazing earphone to me. It didn't create amazing sound. There was never an "oh my god, these are really special" kind of moment with them. Well, I was impressed with the range of frequency response on them. That is special and unique to them alone. After that, I just don't see what's there that you guys find amazing.

I'm not trying to fight your opinions, but I am really quite curious what you guys hear in them that gives you that "oh my god, these are really special" kind of feeling. How do you say they are better then the OK1 or right there with the ER4 IEMs. I can listen to the RE0 and the low ranked PK2 back to back and say the PK2 is better. I can listen to the PK2 and OK1 and say the OK1 is on a whole other level above the PK2. I just go back to why is the RE0 so great?
post #69 of 112
Thread Starter 
I do not feel "oh my god, these are really special" about RE0. In contrary, there are nothing special and I respect that very much. There are a lot of cans which shine in some areas and fault in others, f.e. DT770 or Grados. But there are few cans which do nothing wrong and RE0 belongs to this camp. Moreover, I never heard the more transparent headphone before. It adds less (if any) of its own character to the sound than any other headphone I tried (say 90 models). May be Stax is an exception but I did not listen to it long enough to be sure.
post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
Hmm, I don't get the love of the RE0. I understand why they're liked, but loved, I don't get it.
Every earphone I've used I prefer over the RE0, even my Vibes which on a relative scale should be junk and is several levels down on some of the other earphone's I've tried. This is exactly why I sent mine back, because I could toss on my Vibes, listen, and say I like these better and these do things better then the RE0. How could I justify the RE0 after that?

The RE0 and OK1 are so vastly different from each other, large contrasts from each other. To compare them is more of a choice in personal preference. Even my comments above are personal preference.

RE0 - not transparent (one thing I wanted and didn't get)
RE0 - highs are not great, extended - yes, well defined and meaningful - not so much (one thing that bugged me)
RE0 - amp is beneficial, does lack some control and definition without.

OK1 - where's the mud? I can't find it.
OK1 - well presented highs, better then the RE0 (in my opinion), aggressive but far from harsh, more then some people will find comfortable, highs are better then the ER4S.
OK1 - assume unamped as well, can agree that they can be bright with lacking bass without an amp. They really need an amp to stay tonally even.
OK1 - agree that the RE0 will come across softer, more laid back, OK1 needs an amp to fill out and sound balanced above quiet levels

kostalex, seriously? I know you've used a ton of headphones too.

I really don't get it. It completely escapes me what you guys see. The ER4S is incredibly good, and you know it the instant you use it. The Phonak PFE is really good and instantly impressive to any first time listener. The OK1 is really good, albeit with a metal driver sound signature that may not fit some. The RE0 has me going ??? I tried to like it. I listened to a LOT of music, a wide variety, tried with and without the foam, EQed, and really tried to run the gambit. It's good and does certain things really well, but it never came across as an amazing earphone to me. It didn't create amazing sound. There was never an "oh my god, these are really special" kind of moment with them. Well, I was impressed with the range of frequency response on them. That is special and unique to them alone. After that, I just don't see what's there that you guys find amazing.

I'm not trying to fight your opinions, but I am really quite curious what you guys hear in them that gives you that "oh my god, these are really special" kind of feeling. How do you say they are better then the OK1 or right there with the ER4 IEMs. I can listen to the RE0 and the low ranked PK2 back to back and say the PK2 is better. I can listen to the PK2 and OK1 and say the OK1 is on a whole other level above the PK2. I just go back to why is the RE0 so great?
Hmmm, yes RE0 are confusing and contradictory phones. Let me clarify something. I don't feel much love either. But they are just sound RIGHT, more right then any other phones (except my K701) and thats a lot. Plus they are very fast and resolving, remarkable for dynamic phones.

Their problem, that they are just not IMPRESSIVE enough, they don't have their own character, (as ER4 for example, but ER4 sound very WRONG in many areas! Still very "pleasant" and addictive... ). There are a lot of phones out there with very different types of colorations, and many of them sound more pleasant then RE0 - none of them sound right.

They don't have BIG sound as my IE8 for example.... but IE8 achieves this big sound by elevating midbass to insane levels that totally ruins the sound, so no big achievement for me.

I don't agree with your OK1 comparison in general. For me RE0 are new benchmark for neutrality in IEM arena.
post #71 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostalex View Post
...There are a lot of cans which shine in some areas and fault in others...But there are few cans which do nothing wrong and RE0 belongs to this camp. Moreover, I never heard the more transparent headphone before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lelek45 View Post
For me RE0 are new benchmark for neutrality in IEM arena.
I concur. That's how I feel about RE0 as well. It doesn't add or substrate much (if any) to/from the music, which is why it is one of the most transparent and neutral IEM I ever tried. RE0's ability to maintain relative flatness from bass end to high treble region is what great about it (Even ER4S, which know for its neutrality, has highlighted region on lower treble to bring up the 'extra' detail). The problem is of course not everyone like transparency and neutrality - and you can't account for musical taste and listening preference. You just have to find your cup of tea.
post #72 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
Hmm, I don't get the love of the RE0.
And yes, I do not love RE0 too, but I rather respect it very much. I love my ER-4S Though I know at least one person (my daughter) who really loves RE0.
post #73 of 112
Agreed on the do nothing wrong camp. I can see them being good in that regard. I've bought/used some car/home audio drivers specifically for that reason. At the same time, I understand their limitation. I have respect for the hardware in the sense that they are balanced and functional, beyond some better options. It's just really odd to start saying the RE0 beats the ER4S or is ranked so highly when it actually doesn't excel.

This is a tough debate though because both sides are equally valid in terms of ranking. One can argue the utmost accuracy or the best overall package. Which one wins? Is one necessarily better then the other? Maybe neither really win.

It's good to understand that we are coming from the same light in terms of what we think about the RE0. It's just odd for me to see people to tout them so much for just functionality, although, I do understand why. So many earphones out there could have been great but have dire flaws. To find something without flaw is special in its own right.

The coloration of the RE0 is low. It is one thing I liked, but I did find it to sound slightly dark/veiled. It has a more natural sound then a lot of earphones. It's not quite realistic to me though versus some other options. For example, going back to the OK1, I consider them to sound very natural and quite a realistic feel. I say similar about Denon's C700 which has some of the most life-like midrange I've heard and great dynamics. Too bad it's flawed elsewhere which puts me off of them. I could say the C700 sounds better but is a worse package then the RE0. I can't say that about the Ok1 though is a good package and without major flaws. I can't say the RE0 is on par with the PFE or ER4S I own.

I do agree, the RE0 is tip sensitive. I did use every tip the thing came with and tried running it light in the ear and shoving them in. I tried it with and without the foam, with and without the filter, and I played with the EQ a good bit. I personally felt it suffered considerably in dynamics and articulation of note. It was clean and detailed, yes, but it lacked presence, authority, and subtleties. I could say they got closer to liking when I shoved them in my ears to improve some visceral sense within them. Still, it wasn't enough to come out "right" in my eyes.

As a package, I really did like the RE0. Anyone interested in a well balanced earphone that has amazing frequency range, great detail, and laid back presentation, it's a really good earphone to purchase. To compare it to the ER4S, I feel it is a step down though, and really does need that something special to compete. Sometimes you need to be a little more then just functional. A lot of the high end earphones are functional too but they're also special. It's a challenge to compete.
post #74 of 112
Can anyone compare the sound of these to K601/K701/AD900?
post #75 of 112
I'm using the RE2 and I like what I'm hearing...superb clarity, tight bass but not deep enough...very musical for me.

Is RE0 much better than RE2? Is it a big jump? Will I notice the difference?
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