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When will it be possible to simulate tube sound by DSP? What will it take to do so?

post #1 of 18
1/24/09 at 2:08am
Thread Starter 
Maybe not like those $10K+ plus tube amps, but at least on the level of midfi tube amps (up to ~$2000).
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post #2 of 18
1/24/09 at 2:17am
If I were you, I'd check out the iZotope Ozone plugin for Winamp. It can do a lot of "tube-like" DSP effects and is an extremely powerful plugin in general. You can make a capable headphone or speaker driver sound just about like anything you'd like if you spend enough time tweaking with it.
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post #3 of 18
1/24/09 at 2:41am
When? When someone builds a tubed dsp.

Why not just buy a tube amp? There are quite a few cheap Chinese tube amps that will get you most of what's available from the high-end amps.
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post #4 of 18
1/24/09 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post
If I were you, I'd check out the iZotope Ozone plugin for Winamp. It can do a lot of "tube-like" DSP effects and is an extremely powerful plugin in general. You can make a capable headphone or speaker driver sound just about like anything you'd like if you spend enough time tweaking with it.
Will it really sound like a true tube sound? I tried that foobar tube_dsp and it was nothing like tube, just adds a little bass and distortion. Not sure how this one will work.
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post #5 of 18
1/24/09 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Will it really sound like a true tube sound? I tried that foobar tube_dsp and it was nothing like tube, just adds a little bass and distortion. Not sure how this one will work.
It offers a lot of control over what you want the sound to be like. Trust me, if you learn how to use the software you can make it sound like just about *anything* you want it to.
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post #6 of 18
1/24/09 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Will it really sound like a true tube sound? I tried that foobar tube_dsp and it was nothing like tube, just adds a little bass and distortion. Not sure how this one will work.
A better question you might ask is what tube amp does this person telling you this information own .... and what headphone did he use with the tube amp to define tube sound. These days it seems people offer all kinds of input quoting others generalizations about what constitutes tube sound with little or no direct experience.
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post #7 of 18
1/24/09 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hew View Post

Why not just buy a tube amp? There are quite a few cheap Chinese tube amps that will get you most of what's available from the high-end amps.

What cheap Chinese amp and what high end amp? I own two Chinese amps and neither will approach my < $800 Singlepower PPX3 SLAM for overall sound quality; let alone something like a Supra, a Zana Deux etc....
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post #8 of 18
1/25/09 at 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
What cheap Chinese amp and what high end amp? I own two Chinese amps and neither will approach my < $800 Singlepower PPX3 SLAM for overall sound quality; let alone something like a Supra, a Zana Deux etc....
I said that because imo it is reasonable to say most of the price you pay for a high-end amps like the Supra or ZD is for that last 10% of sound quality. A reasonable expenditure (i'd say 300 to 600 range) and a little research will get you 90% of their sound. For instance, here is a review where the cheaper DV337 hold its own against more expensive amps like the Beta 22 (1500 just for the parts), SP Extreme and a Blue Circle SBH. You do get what you pay for, however not all of us can afford that last 10%.

If the OP is interested he could consider something from Darkvoice or Little Dot as these do seem to be well regarded and offer choices at various price points. I've owned a DV332 for almost two years and it does compare well to my Rudistor NX-03.

I've seen too many budding audiophiles who after having spent large sums to attain high-end sound express bitter disappointment in the small differences achieved. BTW, I never equate hi-end sound with price. That's a common mistake many of us make.
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post #9 of 18
1/25/09 at 2:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hew View Post
I said that because imo it is reasonable to say most of the price you pay for a high-end amps like the Supra or ZD is for that last 10% of sound quality. A reasonable expenditure (i'd say 300 to 600 range) and a little research will get you 90% of their sound. For instance, here is a review where the cheaper DV337 hold its own against more expensive amps like the Beta 22 (1500 just for the parts), SP Extreme and a Blue Circle SBH. You do get what you pay for, however not all of us can afford that last 10%.

If the OP is interested he could consider something from Darkvoice or Little Dot as these do seem to be well regarded and offer choices at various price points. I've owned a DV332 for almost two years and it does compare well to my Rudistor NX-03.

I've seen too many budding audiophiles who after having spent large sums to attain high-end sound express bitter disappointment in the small differences achieved. BTW, I never equate hi-end sound with price. That's a common mistake many of us make.
Define last 10% .... you cant .... there is no such measure you can apply to audio. That is a guess and entirely subjective.

Have you ever owned any of these high end amps you are offering comparisons for? I have both .... I own a DV336SE and a Doge 6210. The DV is good if I use a special tube set not native to the amp and Senn 600s .... even then the amp is mediocre with any headphone I use other than the Senns. The Doge 6210 sucks in stock form. On the other hand I have an Extreme, Supra, MPX3 and several other tube amps and when they are at their best they simply stomp the DV336se overall.

Moving on, who is equating sound with price unless that would be you? I have amps I bought for $200-250 and some that could cost $2000 if I didnt buy them used. I like the inexpensive hybrids a lot. But, you get what you pay for in tube amps. IME, I see many people who dont understand what the big deal is with tubes .... until they hear a really good tube amp. I also see people who buy $2000 tube amps and drive them with ipods and then wonder why the sound isnt appreciably better. Since you dont give much info maybe that is why they are disappointed?
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post #10 of 18
1/25/09 at 9:00am
Audio opinions are all subjective. Every statement that tries to qualify sound quality has to have the proviso IMO. I don't need to argue about this. Check my profile since you feel the need to validate my pedigree and while you are at it read more carefully what I wrote and Skylabs article.

The op and others are free to make up their own minds on these issues as I am sure these arguments will be repeated, but they will continue without me. Have fun!
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post #11 of 18
2/4/09 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
Moving on, who is equating sound with price unless that would be you?
You are, two sentences later:

Quote:
But, you get what you pay for in tube amps.
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post #12 of 18
2/4/09 at 9:01pm
My understanding is that you can only simulate the «negative» aspects of tube sound (coloration, distortion). It will most likely be impossible to simulate the absence of solid-state distortion -- when auditioning through a SS chain.

That said, I have no experience with tube-sound simulators.
.
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post #13 of 18
2/4/09 at 9:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicolasKL View Post
You are, two sentences later:
Later is the operative word.


In case you dont understand good tube amps need good parts and good design to sound good. The cheap Chinese tube amps offer neither.
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post #14 of 18
2/11/09 at 1:26am
Both my last two guitar amps have a setting for tube sound. Marshall and Roland.
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post #15 of 18
2/11/09 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
Later is the operative word.


In case you dont understand good tube amps need good parts and good design to sound good. The cheap Chinese tube amps offer neither.
Which Chinese tube amps do you own and have listened to?
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