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Do Interconnects Impact SQ in an Audio Chain? - Page 3

post #31 of 211
1/15/09 at 3:29pm
It is my humble opinion that this cable sounds different and better, not subtle mind you



Than this cable.



This cable also sounds different and better and its not subtle



Than this cable.



I also strongly suggest that people who make statements like "Interconnects do not make a difference" suffer from one of three things, the world is flat syndrome, a loss of hearing, or a strong desire to argue about something right wrong or indifferent. This is just my opinion mind you.
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post #32 of 211
1/15/09 at 3:39pm
Quote:
I also strongly suggest that people who make statements like "Interconnects do not make a difference" suffer from one of three things, the world is flat syndrome
Actually it probaply is otherway around now that I think about it. Science has proven long ago that earth is not flat but round, and science also claims nowadays that cables as long as they are good do not alter the sound in a way that human ear can pick it up. Others claiming otherwise might be holding on to older apparently nonscientific belief that they do and its audible.

Personally? I dont know. Of special cables I only have Tara Labs Prism-33 (supposedly warm sounding from what I remember reading about it) interconnects and frankly I dont hear any difference between it and my other cheaper Macrom audio RCA cable. Perhaps there is no difference between copper and copper, which makes sense: copper is a copper is a copper. But I want to hear silver someday too to hear if it alters the sound audibly. It is completely different material from copper afterall. I do consider my rig rather resolving, DAC being possibly only weakish link, so I doubt that is not it.
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post #33 of 211
1/15/09 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaZa View Post
Actually it probaply is otherway around now that I think about it. Science has proven long ago that earth is not flat but round, and science also claims nowadays that cables as long as they are good do not alter the sound in a way that human ear can pick it up. Others claiming otherwise might be holding on to older apparently nonscientific belief that they do and its audible.

Personally? I dont know. Of special cables I only have Tara Labs Prism-33 (supposedly warm sounding from what I remember reading about it) interconnects and frankly I dont hear any difference between it and my other cheaper Macrom audio RCA cable. Perhaps there is no difference between copper and copper, which makes sense: copper is a copper is a copper. But I want to hear silver someday too to hear if it alters the sound audibly. It is completely different material from copper afterall.
Just so we are crystal clear on this, its not a theory or a belief, I can hear the difference, and it is not a small difference. I had silver/copper hybrid interconnects and headphone cable previously and they did alter the sound in a way I did not like, they have been replaced because I did not like the way they sounded. Also realize your comments are directed at everyone who does hear a difference. Maybe you should ask yourself if they are all hallucinating?

Science has not proven that cables do not affect sound quality.
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post #34 of 211
1/15/09 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Just so we are crystal clear on this, its not a theory or a belief, I can hear the difference, and it is not a small difference. I had silver/copper hybrid interconnects and headphone cable previously and they did alter the sound in a way I did not like, they have been replaced because I did not like the way they sounded. Also realize your comments are directed at everyone who does hear a difference. Maybe you should ask yourself if they are all hallucinating?

Science has not proven that cables do not affect sound quality.

I was more like pointing out how the otherside sees it. In anycase, the flat earth syndrom insult is wrong from both sides.

As I said, I have limited experience in cables and so far I havent heard a difference between two pure copper cables. I do want to hear a pure silver someday, so I could compare it against my copper ones. Try to compare extremes, you see.
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post #35 of 211
1/15/09 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Just so we are crystal clear on this, its not a theory or a belief, I can hear the difference, and it is not a small difference. I had silver/copper hybrid interconnects and headphone cable previously and they did alter the sound in a way I did not like, they have been replaced because I did not like the way they sounded. Also realize your comments are directed at everyone who does hear a difference. Maybe you should ask yourself if they are all hallucinating?

Science has not proven that cables do not affect sound quality.
Forget about the specifics of which cable is being compared to what, but the fact that you can hear a difference doesn't mean there is an objective (measurable). Simply the expectation of a difference is enough for someone to believe they perceive something, and that is very real subjectively, but it may not mean that physically their ears can detect any difference.
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post #36 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by csroc View Post
Forget about the specifics of which cable is being compared to what, but the fact that you can hear a difference doesn't mean there is an objective (measurable). Simply the expectation of a difference is enough for someone to believe they perceive something, and that is very real subjectively, but it may not mean that physically their ears can detect any difference.
I already explained to you that is not the case. What experience do you bring to the table? Saying to everyone who hears a difference that its merely expectations and not a concrete difference is the most insulting comment in this thread. I will say to everyone, maybe you should consider the source when reading threads about cables making a difference or not. Judge the statements based on who is making them instead of taking everything as gospel. Sorry Mr. Maza, that was directed more at the "I want to argue no matter what crowd". I would also like to say that when people say IC's can improve the sound quality of your system its because they wish to share knowledge gained through experience so others can enjoy as well. If some people here wish to try and ruin that for others then there is nothing more I can do than what I have done.
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post #37 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Science has not proven that cables do not affect sound quality.
Where though are the blind listening tests that suggest audible differences between properly designed cables ? .

Clearly it is possible to deliberately design a cable that has massive attenuation for some frequency bands. By any rational criteria this could not be considered Hi Fi and you could do this with a simple RLC circuit anyway.

But where two cables (of whatever price) are designed to let through the signal unaltered is there any evidence that any two such (competent) cables are audibly different other than in overall signal loss due to differences in gauge ? I have seen no reliable evdence so far.
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post #38 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
I already explained to you that is not the case.
Where did you explain it?

Quote:
What experience do you bring to the table? Saying to everone who hears a difference that its merely expectations and not a concrete difference is the most insulting comment in this thread.
I'm not really implying anything, just enjoying a discussion. However one can choose to look at this from a scientific point of view if they want and they will probably believe that everyone who hears a difference is most likely in many cases imagining it. That does not mean they are not perceiving it, that perception is real but it is manifested from various mental processes be it the power of suggestion (from others), brand, cost justification etc. Most people who feel that way are probably not going to come out and say much about it because it could indeed be insulting to others.

There's nothing insulting about implying the "placebo effect" as is often discussed on this forum. That's a well known, proven and demonstrated phenomenon.

And what experience do I bring? Quite a bit, although I really don't see why you need to bicker with people and try to have them prove themselves to you. It's unlikely you will change your opinion soon if ever, same for many others. Enjoy what you enjoy, listen to the music and let people have a civilized discussion. No reason to be so abrasive.
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post #39 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:14pm
Quote:
But where two cables (of whatever price) are designed to let through the signal unaltered is there any evidence that any two such (competent) cables are audibly different other than in overall signal loss due to differences in gauge ? I have seen no reliable evdence so far.
Thats a good point. People seem to forget that cables are not supposed to have a sound of their own. If some cable adjusts the sound, then that cable is automatically FAULTY cuz it is doing something cable is not supposed to do. It is supposed to transport the signal from equipment to equipment without alteration and loss afterall.
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post #40 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaZa View Post
Thats a good point. People seem to forget that cables are not supposed to have a sound of their own. If some cable adjusts the sound, then that cable is automatically FAULTY cuz it is doing something cable is not supposed to do. It is supposed to transport the signal from equipment to equipment without alteration and loss afterall.
Criteria for judging what cable falls into what catagory is where? If they are designed to not alter the signal then why do some use copper and some silver and some both? They are designed to affect sound quality, isnt that the point. If you have a warm thick sounding setup then the coloration offered by silver may be a great thing for you. If you have a 701 headphone (BTW, headphones and amps color the sound just like most every component in your system) and a very analytical solid state amp then copper may be to your liking. Its about using every part your system to Tune the sound to meet your desires. Example of this: I added the Equinox HP cable to my system and it added more bass impact and made the mids more forward, to adjust for added impact in the bass department I removed some Sylvania 5687-GB tubes from my amp and replaced them with Tongsol 5687 tubes and I love what I am hearing. Result of the new cable and replaced tubes are two things the 650's lack in my system according to my taste. I now have more bass impact and a little less weight in the bass and the mids are more forward and sound amazing with vocals, I like Standards and Jazz. Experimenting to find what suits you makes you an audiophile, not searching for some kind of imaginary neutrality that may or may not be to your liking.
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post #41 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
Where though are the blind listening tests that suggest audible differences between properly designed cables ? .

Clearly it is possible to deliberately design a cable that has massive attenuation for some frequency bands. By any rational criteria this could not be considered Hi Fi and you could do this with a simple RLC circuit anyway.

But where two cables (of whatever price) are designed to let through the signal unaltered is there any evidence that any two such (competent) cables are audibly different other than in overall signal loss due to differences in gauge ? I have seen no reliable evdence so far.
Your right about one thing, If they were all designed to be the same then they would all sound the same.
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post #42 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Criteria for judging what cable falls into what catagory is where?

Not sure what you mean?

From subjective POV, this matter cannot be judged. If cables alter the sound, then what cable is faithfull to original signal?

From scientific POV, any cable that is measurably good, non resistance and low impedance etc... will do, and if its thick or conductive enough for the signal strength. Preferably well shielded from outside interference too. All in all, it measurably shouldnt do anything than conduct that is.
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post #43 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:31pm

Makes a big difference - but the context matters

Interconnects make a big difference - but it is impossîble to make absolute statements about the quality of specific ones. A general statement about tendencies how they alter the sound, however, may be given. (They always alter the sound - but they wont make a bad system sound good). The system as a whole needs to be optimized and this is always in context with the other components. I tried interconnects in my big system in a price range from 200 until more than 1500 $ for the pair (one meter length). The Fastaudio interconnects for 280 sounded better in the context of my system than anything more expensive. Every optimization may be a small change but everything together will make a really very huge difference. This includes the room as well etc., etc. I think I was optimizing for many years until I got the sound right. Now I feel the system may not be optimized anymore further. If I tell you I use only Canton Digital 2 speakers you would never believe what I get out of them.

...however this cannot be said about my bedside earphone based system Here some help is needed concerning an interconnect although I am well aware that I may only expect general tendencies as an answer to my question.
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post #44 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olblueyez View Post
Your right about one thing, If they were all designed to be the same then they would all sound the same.
Why would you want to design a cable that deliberately alters the sound, something which any Equalizer could do and with much more predictale results than arbitrarily swapping wires.
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post #45 of 211
1/15/09 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
Why would you want to design a cable that deliberately alters the sound, something which any Equalizer could do and with much more predictale results than arbitrarily swapping wires.
Like I said, where is the criteria for your cable judgements?
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