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Sennheiser HD800: Spray Painted Plastic and the New Acid-Washed Jeans. - Page 60

post #886 of 902
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebby View Post

How about the plastic those car interior panel clips are made of? They break if you even look at them wrong! :(


Too funny but so true. This is like Romper Room making a pad-lock.

post #887 of 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post

I have taken the HD600 apart - it is okay, but its parts are NOT favourable to doing that too often. They rub each other with juvenile vigour and don't give as much where they should. I'd love a REAL modular design in any of Senn's high end headphones, something with big screws, arched metal supports, and springy headband tongues. Of course, that would mean that Beyerdynamic would lose much of its toot engine, but who really cares. 


I agree, they are no match for a tough Beyer like the DT48 in that regard, and wouldn't mind a bullet-proof HD800, if it was the same price and performance. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post

^^ That of course, is fine. If their sound hits the mark and the headphone can be judged on that alone, then all the best to them and their space-faring gods. I know for sure that I could not relax with something cloven from the same inspirational material as that Skull Candy employees used to re-create a Jar-jar Binks muppet head.

 

I am very glad that you disagree with me - the internet would be worthless without banter. How bout this: if there were two versions at the same price, one in plastic and one in something else - carbon fibre, or metal, for instance.. which would you choose? They looked the same from a distance, but up close, you notice that one has sharp, hard edges that could dent Shrek's head, and the other you can scratch with a jagged fingernail.

 

Naturally, the metal/wood one is heavier. The Carbon one is more brittle, but speaks loads to tech fans. The plastic one stretches, is light, and reasonably tough. That's it. I think the choice between them speaks volumes about each person. Everyone has tolerances. I won't make judgements as that is pointless, but I'd go for the metal one at the same price. I'd still go for the metal one at a 100$ premium, but I'd not pay more than that. I would probably pass up the carbon one for various reasons, but not even think of the plastic one. 

 

I've admired other expensive high end plastic headphones: Ultrasone ED9, for instance. It is a wonderful headphone - sounds great (in an Ultrasone way), looks reasonable, and feels pretty good (a bit too big for my head). But again, I'd not plunk that much money for a plastic headphone, no matter the sound. And, that is fine. It has less to do with arbitrariness and more to do with experience. 

 

If plastics had been used in quality products from their inception rather than creeping up from Kinder Surprise and cheap fans, it might be different. If I didn't have to treat every plastic thing I've ever owned with surgical care - this would be a different conversation.

 

Again, I belong to a group of people who considers the package sound AND everything else, not sound only. It is the same thing with anything I buy. If I care, I get something that I know will last, no matter the fact that the thing I want is about something else. I've had my plastic camera lens days; I wanted bang for the buck and that's what I got.

 

Good bokeh, good image stabilisation - good lens. But the lens focuses more slowly, bends at long focal lengths, and well, feels second-rate. But, that lens was only 700$. A similar lens in metal (albeit a professional lens) costs 1700-2000$. 

 

I feel very strongly that Senn took a step back in design (and that word doesn't mean just looks, it means engineering and focus on craftsmanship) in the HD800. Admittedly, I don't own it. I've demoed it and really liked the razor-sharp sound. But, I would not buy it. I am glad you love it - if it were built to the standard set by its price, I might consider it (later as I work on a pretty small stipend).


Now about the question of buying a plastic or other fancier material HD800 at the same price, personally I would have to weight the pros and cons and buy the one that adapted to my uses the most (I'm the kind of person that thinks months before an important purchase). Personally I wouldn't mind a plastic Ferrari or whatever high performance car if it still kicked ass, no matter the price. 

 

Except for the spray paint, I think the 800 are more than adequate for the price, especially taking into account the awesome comfort.

post #888 of 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhunternyc View Post




If Sennheiser chose to finish the HD800 in black (or even gray for that matter), they could've molded the color into the Leona plastic. This would have solved the problem of the chipping silver paint, which others have noted here. By finishing the plastic with silver paint after the molding process, the paint can have higher concentrated pigment levels. This not only covers up the qualities of the plastic but creates the problems noted above.


That is interesting and would be a real improvement, but I wonder, is that process more expensive?

post #889 of 902

Mine has chips, (not many) and some marks (scratches). anyway, I think we can all agree that HD650 headband breaks easily, this SPECIAL kind of plastic is very flimsy..but sure is light-er. Look at the plastic used in MB Quart designs..try to pull with the same force on the hd650 headband...

 

Sure I think it is special, but not special in the sense of high quality and durable, it's special in looks, like many higher-end headphones are. IMHO (BTW, I find the paint on my HD650 kinda special..it is, as you stated resistant to scratches, but the material beneath it is not.)

post #890 of 902

Well put-together plastics with a good texture are fine in my book, especially for home hi-fi headphones which are supposed to be pampered and treated carefully anyways. 

post #891 of 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
I'll take your word for it.  The HD650 is not like any plastic I've encountered,  I've encountered heaps when stripping out interiors and one has to be very carful with plastic as not break or scratch it.  I would love for car interiors to be made from the "plastic" in HD650.


It is not carbon fiber. The pieces show signs of being injection molded.

 

What is important to understand is that plastic is only as good as the design of the parts. Lots of neat stuff can be accomplished just by using a smart geometry inside the part.

post #892 of 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post

^^ That of course, is fine. If their sound hits the mark and the headphone can be judged on that alone, then all the best to them and their space-faring gods. I know for sure that I could not relax with something cloven from the same inspirational material as that Skull Candy employees used to re-create a Jar-jar Binks muppet head.

 

I am very glad that you disagree with me - the internet would be worthless without banter. How bout this: if there were two versions at the same price, one in plastic and one in something else - carbon fibre, or metal, for instance.. which would you choose? They looked the same from a distance, but up close, you notice that one has sharp, hard edges that could dent Shrek's head, and the other you can scratch with a jagged fingernail.

 

Naturally, the metal/wood one is heavier. The Carbon one is more brittle, but speaks loads to tech fans. The plastic one stretches, is light, and reasonably tough. That's it. I think the choice between them speaks volumes about each person. Everyone has tolerances. I won't make judgements as that is pointless, but I'd go for the metal one at the same price. I'd still go for the metal one at a 100$ premium, but I'd not pay more than that. I would probably pass up the carbon one for various reasons, but not even think of the plastic one. 

 

I've admired other expensive high end plastic headphones: Ultrasone ED9, for instance. It is a wonderful headphone - sounds great (in an Ultrasone way), looks reasonable, and feels pretty good (a bit too big for my head). But again, I'd not plunk that much money for a plastic headphone, no matter the sound. And, that is fine. It has less to do with arbitrariness and more to do with experience. 

 

If plastics had been used in quality products from their inception rather than creeping up from Kinder Surprise and cheap fans, it might be different. If I didn't have to treat every plastic thing I've ever owned with surgical care - this would be a different conversation.

 

Again, I belong to a group of people who considers the package sound AND everything else, not sound only. It is the same thing with anything I buy. If I care, I get something that I know will last, no matter the fact that the thing I want is about something else. I've had my plastic camera lens days; I wanted bang for the buck and that's what I got.

 

Good bokeh, good image stabilisation - good lens. But the lens focuses more slowly, bends at long focal lengths, and well, feels second-rate. But, that lens was only 700$. A similar lens in metal (albeit a professional lens) costs 1700-2000$. 

 

I feel very strongly that Senn took a step back in design (and that word doesn't mean just looks, it means engineering and focus on craftsmanship) in the HD800. Admittedly, I don't own it. I've demoed it and really liked the razor-sharp sound. But, I would not buy it. I am glad you love it - if it were built to the standard set by its price, I might consider it (later as I work on a pretty small stipend).

 

Interesting read.  If I had to choose between headphones that sounded equal sonically and it was now down to a choice of materials, I'd pick the one that offered the best result in ergonometrics and comfort.  I like a light weight headphone that's durable.  Not necessarily one that will last a century since I'm not a collector.... and even moreso, I'm aware that reliability depends on all links in the chain responsible for proper functioning, not just the driver housing or headband.  So if there's a design that's done using high quality plastics that offer equal sonics with great durability and light weight, I'd take it in a heartbeat over wood or metal.

 

I do see though, that the widespread inappropriate use of plastics can create grounds for prejudice which is what I'm seeing here.  Afterall, I've had to deal with using plastic furniture and utensils.


Edited by aimlink - 7/7/10 at 10:39am
post #893 of 902

Careful now, we don't want to go wandering off into a plastic spork analogy. :)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

You can destroy a few of these clips and the panel will still hang on - there are still screws to bolt them down...just spread the load and swap some of the clips around.

 

Oh I know how it works ;) I was just reliving a few frustrating moments from the past thanks to your interior panel comment :) 

 

davidhunternyc: I hope you didn't take my comment to refer to the HD800's, as the plastic used in them is not comparable to the plastic clips at all.


Edited by Nebby - 7/7/10 at 10:52am
post #894 of 902

oops...


Edited by Nebby - 7/7/10 at 10:52am
post #895 of 902


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrederikS|TPU View Post




It is not carbon fiber. The pieces show signs of being injection molded.

 

 

Thats what I thought as well...I stay on the fence with this one.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby View Post


 

Oh I know how it works ;) I was just reliving a few frustrating moments from the past thanks to your interior panel comment :) 

 

 

Yeah, that's how it works - and then some...that's why I left the trade after ten years...the corporate structure was making me somewhat of a dishonest person - and I hate dishonest people.

post #896 of 902
I aknowledge I haven't read all 60 pages of this thread, but I have looked around and not seen what I'm going to ask for: somewhere that solstice small vials of matching paint. Does anyone know of somewhere I can buy something like this? Touch-up paint if you will. I remember when the titanium PowerBook G4 came out that someone sold a small vial of matching paint. That would help for those who have edge scratches.
post #897 of 902

So I read a lot about Leona plastic (in depth) and I am glad Sennheiser used it instead of making these headphones out of real aluminum. It's nothing but pro's against the metal except for the lack of varnish/coating to protect the paint job.

post #898 of 902
Does it come in black ? ;-) that's all i want to know.
post #899 of 902
Thread Starter 

Ahh, it's been more than a year since the last posting on this thread and, boy, have things changed mostly for the better. Plastic looks like plastic (Beats headphones) and metal looks like metal (B&W P7's). The reason why I used these lower priced headphones as examples is to point out that, even at the economy end of the spectrum, headphone design has become more truthful to the materials. Here is a bit a proof from what I've gleaned. Make your own conclusions.

 

Written by Jude Mansilla

 

Since its release, Bowers & Wilkins' P5 has been a hit, in the broader consumer market, and also with many audio enthusiasts. Overall, the P5 is a very good supra-aural (on-the-ear) on-the-go headphone--comfortable for an on-ear, with a sound that's pleasant for just about anyone, even if it wasn't particularly detailed or resolving. In other words, being one of the most gorgeous headphones ever made, having a good, smooth sound signature, and bearing the name of one of high-end audio's most well-known names, all together makes for an alluring value proposition. It sucked me in, and I still use and enjoy the P5.

 

If Bowers & Wilkins asked me, though, how I'd improve on the P5, I'd have several suggestions:

 

  • Don't mess with its stunning good looks, both off and on the head.
  • I love how no matter where I touch it, I'm touching either metal or leather--please don't change that.
  • Don't mess with the awesome cable-groove-in-the-earpiece strain relief, so that it can continue to be cased up with its cable still installed.
  • Make it a circumaural (around-the-ear) design, to make it more comfortable.
  • Give it more bass control, more detail in the mids, and better treble extension. If you're feeling generous, throw in better imaging, please. High-end audio enthusiasts will thank you.

 

In addition to making audio products I love (I bought two of their Zeppelin Airs, and their MM-1 mini monitors for one of my main desks), I think Bowers & Wilkins can also read minds. Because they made all the changes to the P5 I was wishing for, and somehow managed to make it even better looking.

 

It's called the Bowers & Wilkins P7, and it's a perfectly good reason to drop 400 bucks.Thank you.

 

"The P7 looks fantastic, it feels fantastic, it's very comfortable and isolates very well, and it SOUNDS just beautiful. If you seek a high fidelity headphone, value both form and function and have $400 to spend on a portable, I can't think of anything I'd recommend more."

-Bjorn (Lan647)
Head-Fi Member/Reviewer

 


Sennheiser MOMENTUM On-Ear

Written by Jude Mansilla

 

The Sennheiser MOMENTUM has been a bona fide hit. It's not hard to understand why. Everyone I show it to who hasn't seen it before ooohs and aaahs when they see it and then feel the brushed stainless steel and Pittards leather--and that's before they've heard it. Then they hear it, and the ooohs and aaahs resume. I've spent a small fortune gifting MOMENTUMs, because everyone who sees mine wants one. At an L.A. Head-Fi Meet earlier this year, someone I work closely with at Huddler was there for his first meet. I told him I'd treat him to his first Head-Fi headphone--he picked a black MOMENTUM.

 

With its success, it shouldn't be surprising that Sennheiser would want to release a more portable, more affordable version. They're smart people over there, and didn't mess with success. The new Sennheiser MOMENTUM On-Ear looks exactly like what it is--a miniaturized MOMENTUM. And it retails for $120 less than the original, which means it'll probably be the version I gift from now on! ☺

 

To help keep the smaller headphone as comfortable as its big sib, Sennheiser chose to use copious amounts of Alcantara, a synthetic, sueded material that is sooo soft, and is one of my favorite materials to feel against my skin. Put on the Sennheiser HD 800 or Shure SRH1540--both of which use a lot of Alcantara--and you'll understand why. For the MOMENTUM On-Ear, Sennheiser chose to use it to cover the headband and earpads, in place of the Pittards leather on the full-size MOMENTUM. The headband is the same gorgeous brushed stainless steel.

 

Sennheiser also chose to make it available in several gorgeous colors: pink, green, ivory, blue, black, brown, and red. I saw the ivory with brown Alcantara, and had to have it--it's such a beautiful color combo, I wish the full-size MOMENTUM was also available in that color. Then I saw and picked up the red one…then the blue one…hello, black, I think you're next.

 

Of course, none of this would matter if the sound of the MOMENTUM On-Ear didn't live up to the MOMENTUM name, and it does a good job there. It sounds good for a closed supra-aural, but, no, it doesn't sound as good as its full-size sibling, its bass being rather thicker and less detailed, but very well extended. Its mids and treble aren't as detailed as its full-size stable mate either. Still, though, as a whole, it manages a sound signature that does evoke a familial tie to the original--it's good, but it's definitely the sonically less accomplished sibling of the two.

 

The Sennheiser MOMENTUM On-Ear definitely sounds good enough to me that I often choose it as one of my regular grab-and-go headphones, pausing only to decide which color I'm taking with me that day. It's a fashion headphone that sounds good enough to be a Sennheiser.

Edited by davidhunternyc - 12/3/13 at 10:52pm
post #900 of 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhunternyc View Post
 

Ahh, it's been a couple of years since the last posting on this thread and, boy, have things changed, mostly for the better. Plastic looks like plastic (Beats headphones) and metal looks like metal (B&W P7's). The reason why I used these lower priced headphones as examples is to point out that, even at the economy end of the spectrum, headphone design has become more truthful to the materials...

 

First of all, davidhunternyc, I was happy to see your username pop up again! I think we'll continue to see headphone design move in a direction that you'll find more pleasing.

 

By the way, if you've been working on any other projects like this one, please do update that thread to share, if you have the time.

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