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Why doesnt a company make a 1" long pure silver power cord??? - Page 2

post #16 of 51
1/10/09 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller1642 View Post
I really don't want to enter the objectivist/subjectivist power cord argument , anymore than I want to the argue the non existence of a omnipresent omnipotent creator of the universe, but would like to commend gotchaforce for a highly amusing thread.

If you were really keen about audio reproduction, you'd invest in mains isolated power supply, ie deep cycle batteries and a high quality inverter/charger.
yeah, and thats how a lot of really really ridiculously expensive equipment is run, like $100k turntable ridiculously expensive


my point was more to help him understand the other side of the arguement, I honestly don't take a side on it, I'm just trying to help him see the otherside of his arguement

given that he basically started this thread to flamewar with audiophiles, I figured I'd try to get a logical (albeit half asleep) response to him before it just gets burned down
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post #17 of 51
1/10/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
gotchaforce, have you seen "audiophile grade" fuses? According to manufacturers and believers, the material a fuse is made of plays a role in the sound. A typical fuse is under 1" and passes power, so it is (more or less) what you're referring to.
But there is a current limit on it, isn't there? The fuse has to burn up if too much juice is suddenly consumed.
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post #18 of 51
1/11/09 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras View Post
But there is a current limit on it, isn't there? The fuse has to burn up if too much juice is suddenly consumed.
yes, thats what a fuse does, the point is, its got electricity going through it, so you want it to be "better" in order to enhance the signal, the comparison is to point out that the 1" cable solution has been done before, and is seriously done by some people
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post #19 of 51
1/11/09 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post
yes, thats what a fuse does, the point is, its got electricity going through it, so you want it to be "better" in order to enhance the signal, the comparison is to point out that the 1" cable solution has been done before, and is seriously done by some people
Someone should let these people know what kind of wiring is on circuit boards.
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post #20 of 51
1/11/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post
Someone should let these people know what kind of wiring is on circuit boards.
that would depend on exactly what type of circuit board you are talking about. if you are talking about a high end amplifier, then the trace is not crap at all. and an a lot of really nice amps there is no trace; so maybe you should think that through a little more
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post #21 of 51
1/11/09 at 4:38pm
That last couple of inches of power cord is very important. After the long trip from the power generator, the electrons are in a very agitated and angry mood. It is well proven that traveling has that effect.
Those few inches of power cord just before the gear can have a very soothing and relaxing effect on the electrons, much like a good massage or a cold beer, allowing happy relaxed power to enter your gear.
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post #22 of 51
1/11/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
that would depend on exactly what type of circuit board you are talking about. if you are talking about a high end amplifier, then the trace is not crap at all. and an a lot of really nice amps there is no trace; so maybe you should think that through a little more
PCBs have a relatively thin layer of copper on them. I haven't heard of any with "audiophile grade" copper. It's rather ordinary stuff. Whatever comes across the magical mystery power cord (or interconnects) has to go through the rather ordinary copper on the PCB. After a trip through ordinary, thin copper, it passes through to several feet or more of remarkably ordinary wire spooled up in the voice coil.

No matter what, you're going to get plain old wire somewhere in the signal path. Given the extraordinary statements made about wire, I'd expect it to be much like that old adage, "if you put a teaspoon of wine in garbage, it's still garbage. But if you put a teaspoon of garbage in wine, it becomes garbage."

The only way around this would be to use a point-to-point amp, with custom wound transformers, custom resistors and capacitors, and magical mystery wire throughout. Further, you'd have to supply a generator or suitable batteries to get away from the bad wiring in the walls (which, curiously, seems plenty good enough to build an $18,000 power cord at Virtual Dynamics, though, even more curiously, they aren't exactly open about their OEM) and wind your own voicecoils with the chosen wire.
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post #23 of 51
1/11/09 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
PCBs have a relatively thin layer of copper on them. I haven't heard of any with "audiophile grade" copper. It's rather ordinary stuff. Whatever comes across the magical mystery power cord (or interconnects) has to go through the rather ordinary copper on the PCB. After a trip through ordinary, thin copper, it passes through to several feet or more of remarkably ordinary wire spooled up in the voice coil.
Not quite copper, but.....

From the Sim Audio Site - Andromeda CD player "RS Series"

Overseas MOON RS Series
The RS series of MOON audio components benefit from an even higher standard of manufacturing process than the regular MOON versions. All significant differences are contained within the circuitry and construction of each model.

RS versions are built using different materials and parts in certain areas. For example, printed circuit boards are of a higher temperature grade than that of the military specification FR-4 material we normally use; Their traces are gold-plated instead of a tin/lead composite. As well, all capacitors use improved dielectric materials.
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post #24 of 51
1/11/09 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
Not quite copper, but.....

From the Sim Audio Site - Andromeda CD player "RS Series"

Overseas MOON RS Series
The RS series of MOON audio components benefit from an even higher standard of manufacturing process than the regular MOON versions. All significant differences are contained within the circuitry and construction of each model.

RS versions are built using different materials and parts in certain areas. For example, printed circuit boards are of a higher temperature grade than that of the military specification FR-4 material we normally use; Their traces are gold-plated instead of a tin/lead composite. As well, all capacitors use improved dielectric materials.
i) I thought traces used copper plates .. why are they talking about tin/lead alloys?

ii) If the PCB is multilayer or has a polymer coating on the top and bottom, what is the point of gold plating?
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post #25 of 51
1/11/09 at 9:10pm
The plating is applied to the copper traces. (Usually to stop oxidation of the copper.) I can't comment as to any audible differences in the plating, but the gold looks pretty!

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/21...showimage.html
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post #26 of 51
1/11/09 at 9:44pm
AJ Van Den Hul reckons that (his) power cords act as a kind of filter for the power, despite not having any filtering electronics in them. He also stated, in an interview on on the VDH web site I don't remember, that a minimum length (maybe 1m, but his power cables come in a 1.5m min) is required for the power cable to have such an effect. It certainly goes a long way to explain why power cables alone make a difference.
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post #27 of 51
1/11/09 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
that would depend on exactly what type of circuit board you are talking about. if you are talking about a high end amplifier, then the trace is not crap at all. and an a lot of really nice amps there is no trace; so maybe you should think that through a little more
I'm talking about any component in the chain, including high-end amps that use point-to-point wiring (how much does that wire cost, btw? $500/m or more, like the headphone/power cables were talking about? I think not). That includes DACs, op-amps, transformers, regulators, conductors within tubes, resistors and various integrated components. Can you find me one audio rig that conducts audio and power signals using only the same grade of conductors used in "expensive cables" in all components that conduct current?

If we're to believe that power cables make a difference even though they're a small fraction of the total length of conductor the current travels through to get to the audio component, then the same applies to the conductors within all the other audio components (ICs, transformers, tubes, etc) mentioned previously.
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post #28 of 51
1/12/09 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post
I'm talking about any component in the chain, including high-end amps that use point-to-point wiring (how much does that wire cost, btw? $500/m or more, like the headphone/power cables were talking about? I think not). That includes DACs, op-amps, transformers, regulators, conductors within tubes, resistors and various integrated components. Can you find me one audio rig that conducts audio and power signals using only the same grade of conductors used in "expensive cables" in all components that conduct current?

If we're to believe that power cables make a difference even though they're a small fraction of the total length of conductor the current travels through to get to the audio component, then the same applies to the conductors within all the other audio components (ICs, transformers, tubes, etc) mentioned previously.
I cant even talk from experience about power cables, I use a plain old rat-shack power cord to my LLP. actually i'm a little skeptical myself. I had planned on building myself one just to try it out (if I can find a decent cable end that is suited to australia) just for peace-of-mind. I dont agree with anyone who says that cables perform magic. IMO all they can do is provide what they are fed to the maximum of transparency. i'm in the harm minimization camp; all i'm saying is that there are in fact amp and component designs that have custom made PCB that are not crap, thats all. and there are also some amps that dont use a PCB at all. of course there will always be one component or another that isnt high grade, but why should that stop us trying to make the best of it. if you were cooking dinner and it turned out the carrots were a bit old and passed their prime, would you just say screw it and use the rest of the barely edible stuff in your fridge in that meal because you clearly werent going to have perfect results; you may as well eat all ****. just a thought
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post #29 of 51
1/12/09 at 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
AJ Van Den Hul reckons that (his) power cords act as a kind of filter for the power, despite not having any filtering electronics in them. He also stated, in an interview on on the VDH web site I don't remember, that a minimum length (maybe 1m, but his power cables come in a 1.5m min) is required for the power cable to have such an effect. It certainly goes a long way to explain why power cables alone make a difference.
Needing a "filter" for the power is simply the case for a dedicated power supply.
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post #30 of 51
1/13/09 at 5:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
AJ Van Den Hul reckons that (his) power cords act as a kind of filter for the power, despite not having any filtering electronics in them. He also stated, in an interview on on the VDH web site I don't remember, that a minimum length (maybe 1m, but his power cables come in a 1.5m min) is required for the power cable to have such an effect. It certainly goes a long way to explain why power cables alone make a difference.
Wow what a good source.. a guy that owns a company selling cables claims his cables filter stuff and that to get the effect you need to buy at LEAST x amount of his cable. Well im glad he cleared this up for us...

i dont even know how these ******** sleep at night claiming you need to buy 1.5m of their power cords for this to take effect. I guess thats part of being a good salesperson though is to be able to lie and not feel any remorse.
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Why doesnt a company make a 1" long pure silver power cord???