The Sennheiser HD 800: The First Listen, The First Review - Page 123

No they don't say this at all!

There are some specs you can trust and others you can't.

Most headphone specs seem to give an upper and lower frequency response - but generally this is meaningless other than to compare headphones of the same manufacturer.

Without giving a tolerance to the frequency response the figures are meaningless.

Frequency response figures only really have meaning if a tolerance is stated.

As far as I know, Sennheiser only have tolerance figures for two headphones - the HD 25 and the new HD 800.

Both these headphones are quoted with a -3dB figure (the HD 800 also quotes the -10dB figure).

Such figures *can* be trusted as a manufacturer should have the paperwork to back up the measurements.



In many ways I agree with you, especially when a figure is given without any measurement tolerances.

But when a measurement is given *with* a tolerance (like in the frequency response of the HD 800) then it can be trusted - and that goes (or should go) for any manufacturer that gives a figure and states the measurement tolerance.



You will have to ask Sennheiser USA that - they will be demonstrated with a Grace m902 in the UK.



Yes, Sennheiser UK, it's all in my profile and I have mentioned it in several posts as well. Which is why I am very careful to stick to facts when I post and try not to offer opinions - I hate people who try and pimp products as much as the next man and try to avoid doing this.

But my job is technical support and I also have considerable experience in classical music recording which I do in my spare time, as well as writing some AES papers.

I hope this makes things clear.

The ones I truly trust are only the ones I measure myself!

I guess I'm just too cynical after all these years. If (for example) Senns figures for the OMX 80 can't be trusted, then neither can any of their figures for anything in my opinion. It's a question of credibility. They are saying "Never mind that our specs for everything else are utter nonsense, we are telling the truth about these 2 models. Really, we are!"

OK I know that's not fair but you see where I come from. Clearly those trustworthy 3db down figures were not measured with a Benchmark DAC1! It would be nice to know what they were measured with.

Despite my lack of confidence in any form of marketing/advertising and journalism, I am willing to accept that in this case it may well be true, the HD800 may be capable of 13Hz when properly driven (whatever that is).

I am open to the possibility that Senn is telling the truth with their -3db points, I'm just also open to the possibility that they may be slightly misleading, like almost everyone else in the worlds figures are, even for specified 3db down points.

I'm sure I could google and find plenty of 3db down specs that are false, though possibly not for headphones as I don't recall seeing any.

I'm sure the Grace will do a better job than the DAC1 anyway, it' a great unit by all accounts.

I apologise I didn't know, not having kept up with the forum for a couple months.

I have tons of great live classical recordings and would love to talk more when we get time, welcome to head-fi!

Steve

BTW John,

In a few decades, maybe some device will say 10 hz to 55khz at -0.25db
who knows what that will be, but i hope they make hearing aids for us to feel/hear it all.

paul

If you have the knowledge and the test equipment to do it properly.



I didn't say they can't be trusted - they *can*.

But you made an assumption and *assumed* that this was a flat frequency response.

Without the tolerance stated, you don't know if the end points are -10dB, -20dB, -30dB, -50dB ?????

The figures are correct, but you don't know the end points - most headphone manufacturers seem to quote like this.

In contrast, the HD 800 is quoted as:-
6 - 51,000 Hz (-10dB)
13 - 44,100 Hz (-3dB)

so you can see the difference the frequency response figures make extending the end points to -10dB.

Imagine extending to -20dB, etc..............

That's the point I'm making.



As I said above, it's not that the figures are incorrect, it's that the end-point figure is not stated, so you don't have the full information.

Personally, I would prefer an internationally agreed method of measuring where the tolerance / end-point is stated for all measurements so we could all sing from the same hymn book and do proper comparisons.

Just be thankful that top end and pro products *do* tend to be quoted properly.



Headphone measurements are normally done with a test sweep on very expensive, calibrated, test equipment using a dummy ear (measuring microphone in a baffle). They would not be done using domestic equipment.



I hope you can't - advertising standards would make this illegal.



Thanks - looks like I bought the right unit for my own use then (I have had my m902 for a couple of years or so and got it upgraded to the balanced outs last year).



No probs, I have only been here a couple of weeks.



Thanks - if you want to read about a recent recording session of mine, look HERE.

Stevenkelby: Could you say a little about the soundstage, and their "openness" and transparency compared to the HD650?Thanks!

x2

steve, be interested in this also when you get a minute, appreciate your opinions as always.

Would you say that it sounds closer to K701/702 than HD650?

Wow...I've pre - ordered mine...

Lucky me..^^;

Welcome to Head-Fi Blackneat. I see you like baby-steps.

Thanks for the valued impressions stevenkelby.

Great to see other Norwegians in here. Welcome!

Did you pre-order at Multima as well?

Yeah!
Cause that system have no cables (power, speaker, interconnects), at least I see none, and hence won't play a single tone.


Welcome to Head-Fi, fellow Norwegian!
...and nice to see you have already taken a place in the line for a HD800. Behind me and 'nor_spoon' I guess..

Okey. Im just commenting on this here since this has a lot of views. I have pre - ordered these ^^; lol anyways how do i post a post like this? I'm new to this website and i only get how to write a blog..I need to know how to write questions and FAQ's or posts or whatever....'Cause i can't figure it out, though im sure its really easy....:S

Thanks

/\ you just did it, its that easy!

No..thinkin' bout it...but seriously...thanks for the welcome...but how do i post a thread/post like this? 'Cause i need advice on a portable amp for my PXC 450 when im on the go...feel free to reply this lol^^i dont use the noicecancellation much as it takes away quality so...advice on an amp for PXC 450 iwthout NC....at around 150$ Thanks^^

well not like commenting but opening a thread where ppl can comment on MY question not about the Hd 800 as here...and how do i know if anyone has replied to my comment or thread or whatever? i like the youtube setup better...i dont get **** of this site...i look like a complete dumb****^^