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post #15916 of 17272

The whole thing with speaker set-ups is the room. There has always been nice rooms treatments in the best stereos I have heard. You are basically given a hit or miss by the rooms and can change it to tailor it to your stereo.

 

 

Basically no mater what 2 channel or 2.1 channel system you buy it will not sound right till the room is right. The authority I talk about will not be present until the room is right. This is the main reason a stereo sounds great at the shop and bad at home.  

 

 

Going to a small club like the Viper Room sounds great because the PA is overkill and not struggling to fill the room with loudness.

 

 

The best part of headphones is there is no worry about room treatments. I have seen 1/4 of a rigs expense needed for room dampening if the owner was unlucky enough to get a live room on a second floor with wood floors. It can really take the PRaT out of a perfect rig set up.

 

 

Folks go and spend $1000s of dollars on equipment when their room is shat!

 

 

Fist the stereo must be the right size for the room. Too big of speakers for the room and you don't get the sound-stage. Too small stereo for the room and the rig sounds weak because it is not filling the space with sound.

 

Second if the room has unwanted reflections (echos) it will destroy your sonic authority. That is why you will see mega bucks spent by some folks who by luck ended up with their rigs in a too live of room.

 

 

I have seen the best PRaT with cement floors with a layer of carpet. Obviously if you have a bass shy stereo it could benefit by the body and color added by wood suspended floors. Still your best timing is going to be with a dead room on cement. Enough stuff around the room to absorb the reflections and a floor that does not resonate.

 

 

The speakers have to be on stands so that no resonance goes down to the floor and they can project for themselves being both isolated at at the correct listening level for your ears. The speakers have to be the correct distance from the wall. The whole thing with bass response sub or no sub is a direct result of how far the two speakers are from the wall and their angle in relation to the wall. The way you do it is keep listening and moving the speakers keeping you listening point the same.You move the speakers farther apart and closer together as well as close to the wall and farther forward from the wall. This process always takes a full day, maybe more to get right. This completely changes the sound.

 

Placement can not be under stressed here! Placement Placement.........

 

 

Placement. You have to find a way to get the optimum sound-stage by placing the speakers far enough apart for the drive of the amp and dispersion of the sound coming from  the speakers.

 

 

There is really no correct way in the end as far as toe in on speakers go. Some systems are put together for maximum sound dispersion by having the speakers parallel to the back wall. Though most of the time a toe in will greatly enhance the listening experience. Every system is different and needs it's own speaker placement.  

 

 

These three things are paramount and with effect any metal stereo regardless of investment. It is all about letting the room give you the sonic authority.


Edited by Redcarmoose - 8/11/14 at 9:43pm
post #15917 of 17272

Great  info. Food for thought, definitely.

post #15918 of 17272

As far as speakers themselves go. There are as many different ideas for speaker design as makes of speakers. The best I have found used a resonantly inert face plate which the speakers are attached to.

 

 

My speaker faceplates are made of plastic resin impregnated with small glass balls to try and achieve a sonically inert base for the speakers to be anchored to. This way you don't have resonance adding color to your response. You also don't have sound waves from the faceplate creating standing waves inside the enclosure. Speaker manufactures do this with all kinds of material if they want. 

 

The front side faceplate is best when it has smooth almost horn like bevels so that the sound waves are dispersed out as wide as possible from the driver edge. This is most important with tweeters.

 

Now more and more enclosures are being made with the back areas rounded or triangulated. This tries to lower the standing waves inside the speaker box.

 

Open, box-less speakers are the latest trend in speakers as they try to minimize the standing waves and color created from the box enclosure.

 

 

Floorstanders should be on spikes and definitely smaller speakers on stands with spikes or a disconnection from the base so that the speakers can resonate on their own with out vibrationally coupling with any surrounding material.Speakers are their own acoustic musical instrument much like an acoustic classical wood guitar and give characteristic and color to the sound weather we want it or not. All speakers are the greatest source of color in any given system right along with their headphone counterparts. You can believe the manufacture hype but color is imposable to take out of headphones and speakers, no matter how much we want it gone. 

 

Obviously to a point manufactures try to reduce this color and internal lining is put in to reduce reflections and calm down standing waves and vibration inside and outside the speaker. Some manufactures have even gone so far as to make the whole speaker out of sonically inert material to reduce this color addition to the signal.

 

In the end remember everything colors the sound down to the source, cables, the amp, the speakers and especially the room environment. Folks that think amps don't color the signal are just plain deluded. Thinking an amp is a wire with gain is just pure theory. Your making something out of nothing so stuff is always going to have strange characteristics. Trying to get the cleanest uncolored source and amps and speakers is the challenge, though this unclear color is usually the thing that gets our emotions going when we hear a new stereo. I would think though that a colorless stereo would work with more genres of music and keep us coming back for more longer.  

 

 

Manufactures are adding small amounts of tuned color to add to the listening satisfaction when hearing new gear.

 

Flat response is not all that exciting at first listen. In the end though it gives us the most realistic representation of the signal and lasts the longest in our interest for the long run.   


Edited by Redcarmoose - 8/11/14 at 11:16pm
post #15919 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzziekiwi View Post

Any female fronted metal bands anyone can recommend?

We Are The Fallen, Eyes Set to Kill, The Agonist, The Charm the Fury, New Years Day, In This Moment, Tonight Alive, Picture Me Broken, Courage My Love... Tried to think of a relatively varied rock-metal mix. There's quite a few, really. I'm sure I'll think of more soon. Lol.

Oh! Someone recommended Destiny Potato earlier. Some great songs in their album.
post #15920 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm1 View Post

Great  info. Food for thought, definitely.

Listen to the moose!

Room work and some EQ and those speakers of yours will sing gloriously. Promise! But you need a sub still lol
post #15921 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post


Listen to the moose!

Room work and some EQ and those speakers of yours will sing gloriously. Promise! But you need a sub still lol


Ya, just borrow a sub. See what you like. Each brand of sub-woofer is a little different. The whole thing is that critical sub adjustment so it blends with the mix and does not over power the mids with too much bass! The other adjustment from what I understand allows the bass to mature inside the living room listening area and not outside of it?

post #15922 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post
 


Ya, just borrow a sub. See what you like. Each brand of sub-woofer is a little different. The whole thing is that critical sub adjustment so it blends with the mix and does not over power the mids with too much bass! The other adjustment from what I understand allows the bass to mature inside the living room listening area and not outside of it?


Thanks fellas. Sounds like a good call. It was also instructive to hear what my system sounded with the addition of a Jolida DAC and amp. Amp, DAC and sub. Now just to find the right synergy:confused_face(1):

post #15923 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post


Listen to the moose!

Room work and some EQ and those speakers of yours will sing gloriously. Promise! But you need a sub still lol

Oh man, subwoofers are really tough to make sound good :( Personally I wouldn't want one in a stereo setup. Had one, got rid of it.

post #15924 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post
 

Oh man, subwoofers are really tough to make sound good :( Personally I wouldn't want one in a stereo setup. Had one, got rid of it.

Yeah me too. I really don't miss that thing. The two 120mm woofers of my monitors have plenty enough bass for me (the bass is also a lot better than what my old subwoofer produced...).

post #15925 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post
 

Oh man, subwoofers are really tough to make sound good :( Personally I wouldn't want one in a stereo setup. Had one, got rid of it.

we'll have to agree to disagree.  i'm a tweaker though...i can happily spend hours moving stuff, calibrating, EQ'ng (i do it with video as well) 

 

IMO a sub is so worth the effort.  i also think extra channels are as well, but i digress....currently i'm running 4 subs (and 2x200mm in the mains) and yes, it sucked to get all the cancellations out etc. but i have them all x-overed and volume matched and i think it sounds outstanding

post #15926 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post
 

Oh man, subwoofers are really tough to make sound good :( Personally I wouldn't want one in a stereo setup. Had one, got rid of it.

 

You just have to set it to the correct setting. You know how you set your volume for classic as loud as you are comfortable with then let the rest be? Play super bass-heavy music and set tthe sub to what you're comfortable with then leave it be

post #15927 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post
 

we'll have to agree to disagree.  i'm a tweaker though...i can happily spend hours moving stuff, calibrating, EQ'ng (i do it with video as well) 

 

IMO a sub is so worth the effort.  i also think extra channels are as well, but i digress....currently i'm running 4 subs (and 2x200mm in the mains) and yes, it sucked to get all the cancellations out etc. but i have them all x-overed and volume matched and i think it sounds outstanding

 

Yes, everyone is different and every system is different. We all are looking for a different sound. True that in many cases no subs needed due to what the two speakers can do. We are at a wonderful place in audio where the experience of the last 50 years is abound to pick and choose from. Systems used to be either nice audiophile 2 channel or 5.1-7.1 cinema rigs with nothing to crossover in style in between. Now there is a ton of choices. I think I came from the purest 2 channel way of doing things but after acquiring some really good cinema gear that was better than my 2 channel gear I learned to use and like subs. 

 

 

Subs are hard to deal with. The room placement in itself is a grand decision and effects the sound. The best technique I have seen uses a slab of marble which you place a downward firing sub on top of. Putting a sub in the room corner is maybe the best place. Still folks find really creative ways to place subs under stairways and stuff. It is all about tweeking and not giving up. True though that merging the sub tone and not having it double over the same tone the speakers are reproducing, is the greatest issue to overcome in both design and usage.

 

 

The transparent merging between main speakers and sub is the biggest issue as why some purists are still not on the sub bandwagon. Still once you have had a perfect sub experience it's quite addicting. That sub base when it is perfectly dialed in is amazing. On really powerful rigs you can feel it in your gut. So it makes the experience more interactive. This is close to a concert experience too. The issues come in to play of neighbors and wife too. I had a sub once that I had tuned wrong. I could not hear it but my neighbor could hear it just fine!


Edited by Redcarmoose - 8/12/14 at 11:17pm
post #15928 of 17272
Maybe due to marketing trends but many manufactures are placing the equivalent to subs in their speakers. So they sell well because the folks who like subwoofers get the sub they wanted x 2 and the audiophile purists who are locked in to strictly 2.0 speakers systems get just the two speakers.


Everyone wins as the company sells speakers to both groups.
post #15929 of 17272
post #15930 of 17272
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathzombie View Post

When did this happen? Ohhh!!!!! Facebook has worked!!!

http://www.angrymetalguy.com/fallujah-the-flesh-prevails-prevails-review-of-the-dr10-master/

That is exciting. The SQ ruined that album for me.IMO

On another music note Khold releases their new album on Peacevile Records September 30th. The sound is described in previous releases as if they are young musicians raised on Darkthrone. Not the new Darkthrone mind you but the middle Moonfrog era Darkthrone. Just slow moody intense Darkthrone but still original sounding Nordic Black Metal.






Something to look forward to.

Hopefully they will bring the Darkthrone/Moonfog sound straight into 2014. No one else is even close to doing it now.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AlcH5mswc20

Last Khold release was in 08. This band also related to the Tulus experimental black metal band.
Edited by Redcarmoose - 8/13/14 at 4:53am
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