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Lets Talk Metal - Page 903

post #13531 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

I disagree, as I said. There are absolutely LOADS of metal albums with fantastic production, even going back into the early days. 

And just as many with trash production. Depends on the label and their on-staff engineers. Much of what I've heard from Combat Records (early Megadeth, for example) is awful. Stuff from EMI (Iron Maiden, etc.) is much better.
post #13532 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

I disagree, as I said. There are absolutely LOADS of metal albums with fantastic production, even going back into the early days. 

Yes, but the overwhelming majority of metal produced these days has awful sound. That's our fault. We let this happen.
post #13533 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


Yes, but the overwhelming majority of metal produced these days has awful sound. That's our fault. We let this happen.

 

What do you call trash production? I'm listening to Celeste, Nails, Todgelichter, Les Discrets, Indian, Necroblaspheme, Batillus, Gaza, Agoraphobic Nosebleed, Call of the Void, all sorts of stuff and it sounds gorgeous.

 

Yeah, there's tech death types that are ridiculously processed, but that's just a mistake on their part and you can't act like metal is in any way unique to bad production.

 

Don't bring up black/death metal with intentionally lo-fi production, either. That's a stylistic choice. 

post #13534 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

What do you call trash production?

e.g. New Fleshgod Apocalypse album. Garbage. Utterly.

Please read this and this.
post #13535 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


e.g. New Fleshgod Apocalypse album. Garbage. Utterly.

Please read this and this.


The tryhard loudness is reflected in the utterly laughable cheesiness of their music video.

 

post #13536 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


e.g. New Fleshgod Apocalypse album. Garbage. Utterly.

Please read this and this.

 

So the thing I said in the paragraph AFTER what you quoted. See: Nile's "At the Gate of Sethu" or Hour of Penance's "Sedition". Yes. That would be the exact thing I mentioned.

 

Plucking out subpar tech death bad production and going "WE HAVE SO MUCH BAD PRODUCTION IN METAL OMG" is as ignorant as playing a Soulja Boy song and saying all rap is banal and superficial. 

 

But the thing is, that's a mistake. It's a screwup. It's not "the way metal is going". It's a subgenre of a subgenre of metal with people who aren't doing it right. You want to check out some good stuff? Pull up Sophicide's "Perdition of the Sublime" or Necroblapheme's "Destination: Nulle Parte". Fire up Psycroptic's "The Inhereted Repression" or Aeon's "Aeons Black".

 

Or let's move away from tech-death. How about Obscure Sphinx's "Void Mother", Indian's "From All Purity", Batillus's "Concrete Sustain", Eagle Twin's "The Feather Tipped the Serpent's Scales", High on Fire's "De Vermis Mysteriis", or Windhand's "Soma"? I could keep going.

 

If you're stuck on a few crappy examples of poorly done modern tech death then no duh you'll be yapping about bad production. 

post #13537 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

So the thing I said in the paragraph AFTER what you quoted. See: Nile's "At the Gate of Sethu" or Hour of Penance's "Sedition". Yes. That would be the exact thing I mentioned.

 

Plucking out subpar tech death bad production and going "WE HAVE SO MUCH BAD PRODUCTION IN METAL OMG" is as ignorant as playing a Soulja Boy song and saying all rap is banal and superficial. 

 

But the thing is, that's a mistake. It's a screwup. It's not "the way metal is going". It's a subgenre of a subgenre of metal with people who aren't doing it right. You want to check out some good stuff? Pull up Sophicide's "Perdition of the Sublime" or Necroblapheme's "Destination: Nulle Parte". Fire up Psycroptic's "The Inhereted Repression" or Aeon's "Aeons Black".

 

Or let's move away from tech-death. How about Obscure Sphinx's "Void Mother", Indian's "From All Purity", Batillus's "Concrete Sustain", Eagle Twin's "The Feather Tipped the Serpent's Scales", High on Fire's "De Vermis Mysteriis", or Windhand's "Soma"? I could keep going.

 

If you're stuck on a few crappy examples of poorly done modern tech death then no duh you'll be yapping about bad production. 

 

But..... De Vermis and Soma do sound awful...... which sucks because both bands are outstanding

post #13538 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKENEDPLAGUE View Post
 

 

But..... De Vermis and Soma do sound awful...... which sucks because both bands are outstanding

 

You are NUTS if you think Soma sounds awful. It's thick, fuzzy, and just a joy to listen to. It's friggin' occult stoner doom, it's not SUPPOSED to be all clear. I'm willing to give you De Vermis because it IS pretty glossy, but I tried to limit myself to albums that came out in the last 2 years. If we start expanding backwards then things get even better. Heck, here's a lot of metal I've been listening to with wonderful production:

 

Celeste - Animale(s)

 

We Lost the Sea - The Quietest Place on Earth

 

Black Math Horseman - Wyltt

 

Todtgelichter - Agony

 

Lantlos - Agape

 

Obscure Sphinx - Void Mother (I know I keep mentioning this but holy crap it's awesome)

 

Les Discrets - Ariettes Oubliées...

 

Agalloch - Marrow of the Spirit

 

Negura Bunget - Virstele Pamintului

 

Drudkh - Blood in our Wells

 

And so on and so on. 

 

The problem with tech death is it kinda NEEDS ultra sharp production or else all the instruments bleed together into a mush. The problem is when it comes across as overly plastic. 

 

EDIT: Add the new Morbus Chron album "Sweven" to the list. Just beautiful


Edited by SomeGuyDude - 3/4/14 at 9:37am
post #13539 of 16552
post #13540 of 16552

Your da man!!!

post #13541 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

So the thing I said in the paragraph AFTER what you quoted. See: Nile's "At the Gate of Sethu" or Hour of Penance's "Sedition". Yes. That would be the exact thing I mentioned.

Read those articles.

Metal production is terrible, some of the examples you gave aren't very good. Some of them are really poor. Some of them are good.

Do you level match your music with SoundCheck in iTunes? No, try it.

A lot of times people confuse the MUSIC with its PRODUCTION. And poor production doesn't always ruin the music, but it certainly distracts from it.

You want awesome production, check out Dan Swano's Witherscape, check out Gorguts latest, check out Torture Division's latest, check out the recent Cynic record, check out last Gris record, etc. etc.
post #13542 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


Read those articles.

Metal production is terrible, some of the examples you gave aren't very good. Some of them are really poor. Some of them are good.

Do you level match your music with SoundCheck in iTunes? No, try it.

A lot of times people confuse the MUSIC with its PRODUCTION. And poor production doesn't always ruin the music, but it certainly distracts from it.

You want awesome production, check out Dan Swano's Witherscape, check out Gorguts latest, check out Torture Division's latest, check out the recent Cynic record, check out last Gris record, etc. etc.

 

You're right, how silly of me to be enjoying the music instead of faffing about with iTunes. 

 

BRB, doing stuff with my music instead of listening to it. What numbers should I be looking at in order to indicate I'm having fun?

post #13543 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

You're right, how silly of me to be enjoying the music instead of faffing about with iTunes. 

That's not my point at all.
Quote:
BRB, doing stuff with my music instead of listening to it. What numbers should I be looking at in order to indicate I'm having fun?

None. It's not about any number. It's about the sound.

But my point is that enjoyment != great production. I love the latest Behemoth record, do I think it exemplifies great production? Not on your life.

Also a greater appreciation on how our ears function, why louder sounds better initially but in reality is typically worse, why some of those early 90s records still sound magical to most of us, etc. etc., you start to appreciate great production and you start to realize the profound effect the Loudness War has had on the industry - ESPECIALLY on metal, since the record labels have unilaterally taken away our volume knobs from us in an effort to out compete one another.

The net result, terribly sounding metal.
post #13544 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post

The net result, terribly sounding metal.

Terrible-sounding everything, not just metal.
post #13545 of 16552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


That's not my point at all.
None. It's not about any number. It's about the sound.

But my point is that enjoyment != great production. I love the latest Behemoth record, do I think it exemplifies great production? Not on your life.

Also a greater appreciation on how our ears function, why louder sounds better initially but in reality is typically worse, why some of those early 90s records still sound magical to most of us, etc. etc., you start to appreciate great production and you start to realize the profound effect the Loudness War has had on the industry - ESPECIALLY on metal, since the record labels have unilaterally taken away our volume knobs from us in an effort to out compete one another.

The net result, terribly sounding metal.

 

This is confusing. Please explain to me how, if the end result is an enjoyable sound, it is "bad production"?

 

We're not talking the loudness wars here and the famed Death Magnetic fiasco, they're not all victims to that (and certainly not everything I listed above). There is a lot more to production than simply levels on the mixer. I'm talking about FAR more than the volume knobs. You're seriously shortsighted if that's all you're using for criteria of good/bad production. Those above listed albums have fantastic thickness, tone, timbre, ambience, and clarity appropriate for the genres in which they're made.

 

And remember that technical death metal... doesn't NEED loads of nuance and subtlety to the production. There's a REASON it's made like that, the product is a gigantic wall of stifling blast beats and guitar riffs. It's not really "wrong" in that sense. But an album like The Pax Cecilia's "Blessed are the Bonds" is made vastly differently because it's a post-metal album and thus has a different sound intended. 

 

I think some people here learn a couple things about sound and start drawing conclusions without really digging deeper...

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