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HD 650 Cardas Cable Upgrade with Grado Adaptor

post #1 of 11
1/1/09 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Hello all.
This is my first post to this group that I stumbled upon while browsing Headroom.com.

I'm a new headroom customer who is still awaiting his first items, i.e., a MicroAmp with Astrodyne Power Supply, as well as the Cardas Cable upgrade for my Sennheiser HD 650's.

I'm a relative newby to this sort of stuff though I'm not unfamiliar with the audiophile pursuit of great sound. My Dad was a big pioneer of it, though he did it via speakers.

For headphone amp and DAC, I'm using FireStone's Fubar III with its Power Supply Unit. I'm really enjoying that combo with the HD 650's.

That's it for the introduction.

My concern is whether my Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor will interfere with the performance of the Cardas cable. Any takes on this? I decided not to ask HeadRoom for a 10ft Cardas cable with a 1/8" plug since I see myself upgrading my setup later to one of the desktop units.
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post #2 of 11
1/2/09 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
Hello all.
This is my first post to this group that I stumbled upon while browsing Headroom.com.

I'm a new headroom customer who is still awaiting his first items, i.e., a MicroAmp with Astrodyne Power Supply, as well as the Cardas Cable upgrade for my Sennheiser HD 650's.

I'm a relative newby to this sort of stuff though I'm not unfamiliar with the audiophile pursuit of great sound. My Dad was a big pioneer of it, though he did it via speakers.

For headphone amp and DAC, I'm using FireStone's Fubar III with its Power Supply Unit. I'm really enjoying that combo with the HD 650's.

That's it for the introduction.

My concern is whether my Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor will interfere with the performance of the Cardas cable. Any takes on this? I decided not to ask HeadRoom for a 10ft Cardas cable with a 1/8" plug since I see myself upgrading my setup later to one of the desktop units.
The Desktop units have a 1/8" connector as well as a 1/4", but if you are really concerned, get a Cardas adapter.
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post #3 of 11
1/2/09 at 11:14am
How much do cables really help? I'm new, but I've noticed the division between users.
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post #4 of 11
1/2/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post
How much do cables really help? I'm new, but I've noticed the division between users.
Your question is rather contradictory. "I've noticed the division between users" is correct and means that you can't get one answer to "How much do cables really help?" To some, no names *cough* *cough* *coPatrick82ugh* the cables are everything, and to others they are very low priority. I haven't yet tried different cables of any kind so I have no opinion.
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post #5 of 11
1/2/09 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henmyr View Post
Your question is rather contradictory. "I've noticed the division between users" is correct and means that you can't get one answer to "How much do cables really help?" To some, no names *cough* *cough* *coPatrick82ugh* the cables are everything, and to others they are very low priority. I haven't yet tried different cables of any kind so I have no opinion.
I know it was a contradiction.

I plan on recabling my HD650s eventually to see what the fuss is all about. Then, in the distant future, I'll definitely step it up to a balanced connection. I believe that will actually present a noticeable change.
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post #6 of 11
1/2/09 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
My concern is whether my Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor will interfere with the performance of the Cardas cable. Any takes on this? I decided not to ask HeadRoom for a 10ft Cardas cable with a 1/8" plug since I see myself upgrading my setup later to one of the desktop units.
Welcome to the HR fold, aimlink. First, smart move to go with the 1/4" Cardas. I have the same setup: HD650 with 1/4" Cardas. I also have the Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor. I did an A-B with the 1/4" and 1/8" with my HRD-SE (maxed) w/ DPS (computer as source, Foobar2000, USB). I do hear an SQ difference between the two. Soundstage seems to be less expansive with 1/8", resulting in the beginnings of fatigue after a minute or so. But this is purely subjective so it'll help to have others try the same experiment.

If you have the opportunity, test your lineup with the DPS to see if there's a difference when compared to the Astrodyne. I'm guessing that you'll hear a significant difference, with the nod going to the DPS.
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post #7 of 11
1/2/09 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post
I know it was a contradiction.

I plan on recabling my HD650s eventually to see what the fuss is all about. Then, in the distant future, I'll definitely step it up to a balanced connection. I believe that will actually present a noticeable change.
ZenErik, I stepped "up" to the HRDB but have kept the HRD-SE. There is a difference between balanced and SE, but it seems to be more of "kind" than SQ. Thus, I'm not sure if the step is "up" -- it seems more like sideways to me. I'd say that the SE is natural and mellow in comparison to the Wow! in the balanced. Sometimes you don't want to be blown away by the music. You just want to kickback and enjoy.

Re recabling -- I haven't spent time with the stock cable for the HD650. I switched in the Cardas as soon as I got the 650. Reviews that I've read are overwhelmingly for the aftermarket upgrades, and I've decided not to question the common wisdom. My sense is that even if the "difference" is slight, it will significantly impact SQ. Once you hear the better, the shortcomings in the lesser, even if slight, will play HUGE.
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post #8 of 11
1/2/09 at 3:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by feifan View Post
Welcome to the HR fold, aimlink. First, smart move to go with the 1/4" Cardas. I have the same setup: HD650 with 1/4" Cardas. I also have the Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor. I did an A-B with the 1/4" and 1/8" with my HRD-SE (maxed) w/ DPS (computer as source, Foobar2000, USB). I do hear an SQ difference between the two. Soundstage seems to be less expansive with 1/8", resulting in the beginnings of fatigue after a minute or so. But this is purely subjective so it'll help to have others try the same experiment.

If you have the opportunity, test your lineup with the DPS to see if there's a difference when compared to the Astrodyne. I'm guessing that you'll hear a significant difference, with the nod going to the DPS.

Interesting that you hear a difference since it stands to reason that if the cable is so important, then interposing another, even though short in length and of pretty good quality, would significantly impact on the performance of the cable. It's just a matter now of how much.

Additionally, I wholeheartedly support the view of incremental improvements. While you may not hear much of a benefit from one component change, you will likely hear the difference after several component changes, each offering a minor improvement that would not likely stand alone as a worthwhile single upgrade.

I'll be upgrading DAC, Amp and the headphone cabling. I doubt that I'll be struggling to hear a difference.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a DPS, but I'm really skeptic that it would do better than the Astrodyne powering just the MicroAmp. If I had a stack to power, i.e., the MicroAmp and DAC, I definitely would have gotten it. However, my Firestone SpitFire will have it's own PowerSupply Unit.
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post #9 of 11
1/2/09 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
Interesting that you hear a difference since it stands to reason that if the cable is so important, then interposing another, even though short in length and of pretty good quality, would significantly impact on the performance of the cable. It's just a matter now of how much.
Yeah, seems logical that any kind of juncture will impact SQ. I'm wondering if the diameter (1/4" vs. 1/8") of the jack also has an impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
Additionally, I wholeheartedly support the view of incremental improvements. While you may not hear much of a benefit from one component change, you will likely hear the difference after several component changes, each offering a minor improvement that would not likely stand alone as a worthwhile single upgrade.
Yup, and it also makes sense to proceed as you are, by keeping the headphone constant while switching out other components. The HD650 is a known quality reference. With a good quality aftermarket cable, you may have a reference that's even more reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
I'll be upgrading DAC, Amp and the headphone cabling. I doubt that I'll be struggling to hear a difference.
Agreed, a difference, however small, will make allthe difference in the world between acceptable and unacceptable. Re the sequence of components, I'd suggest upgrading the cable before the DAC, amp, etc. if only to get the unknown out of the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
I've been toying with the idea of getting a DPS, but I'm really skeptic that it would do better than the Astrodyne powering just the MicroAmp. If I had a stack to power, i.e., the MicroAmp and DAC, I definitely would have gotten it. However, my Firestone SpitFire will have it's own PowerSupply Unit.
You have a good point. I'm not sure, too, if the DPS would make that much of a difference. It'd be great if you could somehow borrow one from a friend for a test. Others with more tech savvy could tell us whether even for a smaller amp, a "faster" PS makes an appreciable difference. I'm guessing that the DPS is able to more quickly respond to power demands that make a difference in SQ, especially in the lower bass, and this speed produces a tighter, punchier, well-defined bass. I've noticed this difference in the HRDs when comparing the DPS against the Astrodyne.
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post #10 of 11
1/2/09 at 7:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink
I ordered the cable after ordering the DAC and MicroAmp. It'll take great self control to keep them in the boxes until the cable arrives.
The HD 650 comes with its own 1/4 to 18" adaptor. I compared it with the Grado adaptor and there is indeed a difference. More base with the Grado. I can't say there was much difference with the high frequencies. So, there's no doubt in my mind that the adaptor makes a difference!!
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post #11 of 11
1/15/09 at 3:31pm
Thread Starter 
As a final report, I did get a hold of the Cardas adaptor and it sounds better than the Grado adaptor when using this HD 650 with Cardas cable upgrade.

It's a significant improvement. I'd have never thought!!

The Cardas adaptor has less of an effect on the base than the Grado with the Grado accentuating the base in a perhaps negative way. Some may actually like it. But I also now realise the Grado was interfering with the high frequency performance.

I'm now sold on cabling actually making a difference, even adaptors with short lengths of cable!!
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