Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › A comparison of all my IEMs NOW WITH REVIEW:-)! W3, Sennheiser IE8, UE10 pro, SE530, ER4P, Triple Fi, Sensaphonics 2XS etc.
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A comparison of all my IEMs NOW WITH REVIEW:-)! W3, Sennheiser IE8, UE10 pro, SE530, ER4P,... - Page 9

post #121 of 195
1/10/09 at 2:48am
Thanks for the review.
Im going to purchase my IE8 soon!

otto
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post #122 of 195
1/10/09 at 2:59am
Thread Starter 
I'll answer a few randomly posed questions and comment on a few comments as well.

My favorite IEM is the Westone 3. It sounds overall just better to me than the IE8, but the IE8 possesses a magic which only the IE8 has. Let me make an analogy. Imagine you were at a museum with a limited amount of paintings.......lets say 10 paintings in total. Let's say 9 of these paintings were Rembrandts, Vermeers, Rubens, etc......in other words, what I'm specifying is each of the paintings were very similar in terms of time and place, however they were distinctly different in character. Then all of a sudden you turn you head and there's a Picasso in the room. Maybe this Picasso painting is not your favorite, but it stands out and offers something really wonderful which the other 9 paintings don't...it just seems to come from a different mold. I'm not saying that Rembrandt and Vermeer are twinlike but they definitely possess commonalities that Picasso doesn't share. Well all the other IEMs have some sort of commonality except the IE8 which although is not my favorite, definitely has the most unique sound of the group.

Second thing is I don't find the Westone 3's to be any more sibilant than any other IEM, and I think their signature is very natural in the high region. However a lot of music is mastered today to be exceptionally bright for speakers with laidback frequency response.

Third, please by no means consider the IE8 the IEM equivalent of the HD650. I never made this claim and I would never dare to even though they are both wonderful in their own way. First think I will say though is the IE8 is significantly brighter than the HD650. You will notice that although I gave the IE8 a lot of 10s, the one major flaw for me was "highs quality".........if you have a headphone where everything is a 10, but the highs are just slightly above average, then its better to have a headphone where the bass, mids and highs are all a 9. I'd venture to say the Westones have a bass which could be ranked as a 10 if I wasn't being the most discriminatory of folk. The highs of the Westone are the best I've heard in an IEM and the mids are only outclassed by the SE530s and possibly the IE8.

Let me pose this idea to those who are considering both. If you've had top tier IEMs before but were never pleased with the sound enough, consider the IE8 because it will give you something I feel is entirely different. If you've had a top tier IEM and are looking for either an improvement upon something you already love or just something to compliment what you own, consider the W3 because they are the best universal armature driver IEM I'm sure! I have not heard the Klipsch or Sleeks, and I'm sure they have their merits so I cannot make this assumption for sure, but I am pretty certain that 90% of people would agree that of the universals I have tried, the Westone are at the top in the armature driver category.
I've been talking headphones with you for years. Now I can help you with your purchase:) Sales Specialist & Headphone Guru @ Headphones.com
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post #123 of 195
1/10/09 at 3:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by epithetless View Post
I don't remember anyone saying they hear sibilance with all IEMs...I was one of the people who confessed having a prior sensitivity to sibilance, and I've certainly heard IEMs (great-sounding IEMs) which behave very well in that regard (the SA6, Atrio m5, Altec Lansing iM716, and MylarOne X3 among them).
Perhaps you missed this where PsiCore said exactly that. Note that I posed the question just above his post.

Quote:
Then there's soozieq, who -- having owned a whole slew of IEMs -- has identified no particular history of sibilance-sensitivity and still found the W3 sibilant no matter what she did (including re-buying them to try new tips).
Yes, as I recall she bought the W3 twice but could never get rid of her sibilance problem. I believe she also bought the IE8 twice as well, but I don't recall why she wanted to revisit them again. As you probably know, soozieq lives in the UK and said she paid $600 for her W3. Given the much cheaper price of the IE8 there, I think I would have been influenced by that personally. I believe she also found the Westones to be extremely microphonic as well. If I remember correctly, she posted a rather lengthy list of faults she found with the W3. I seem to recall also that she said she preferred the W3 to the IE8, but gave up their superior clarity and detail to rid herself of her sibilance problem.

Quote:
I do find the W3 unique in the sense that it's so damn picky with tip choice. Tips make a degree of difference with any earphone, sure, but the change in only the sibilant frequencies with the W3 -- depending on the tip used -- is so extreme as to be remarkable to me. As for "just choosing the right sleeves," I wish it was that simple, but so far my "right sleeves" haven't made themselves known. The slippery little devils!
And many of us--a majority actually--hear absolutely no sibilance with them no matter what tips we try unless it exists in the recording. There are also a few who appear to lack an understanding of exactly what sibilance is and ascribe any anomaly to it.

Quote:
Which leads me to my latest experience with the W3...My supply of triple flanges just came in, and I tried tstarn06's recommended method of simply trimming down the bottom end and leaving all three flanges intact. The good news: no more sibilance! The bad news: a slight but detectable of compression of the mids and increasing amounts of discomfort over time. Crap. I've ordered the small Ety tri-flanges as a final resort, and either they'll miraculously work, or I'll have to decide between bearing with the sporadic sibilance of my comfy, comfy bi-flanges and letting the W3s go...
If I had such problems I would have cut my losses long ago and sold the bloody things. Like soozieq, I'd be willing to give up some of the good to rid myself of the bad, and let's face it, sibilance is baaaaad. In any case, I wish you the best of luck with them.
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post #124 of 195
1/10/09 at 4:09am
Thread Starter 
The Westone 3s are less sibilant to my ears than the IE8 and UE10, strange that sibilance is such an issue. By sibilance we are referring to the sonic character of the letter "s" and also opening and closing high hats. I'm just clarifying this aspect of sibilance. I simply don't find them to be overtly sibilant.
I've been talking headphones with you for years. Now I can help you with your purchase:) Sales Specialist & Headphone Guru @ Headphones.com
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post #125 of 195
1/10/09 at 4:16am
ah this is a great thread! im surprised u have all those but no klipsch image x10's! lol. it would be really cool if u compared the x10's with them too. i would like to know how they match up with them. ppl say the x10's are able to compete with those top IEM's. maybe not IE8's, but yea, there about 200 dollars while the triple fi's, se530's, um3 are all around 300+.
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post #126 of 195
1/10/09 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spad View Post
Perhaps you missed this where PsiCore said exactly that. Note that I posed the question just above his post.
Yep, missed it. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm too tired to type more, so I'll just skip to the end and say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spad View Post
In any case, I wish you the best of luck with them.
Thank you. Me too.
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post #127 of 195
1/10/09 at 4:56am

W3 sibilance

I keep reading of W3 owners who claim sibilance isn't an issue for most people, or that if it is an issue - then it's easily remedied with the 'right' tip. But this poll shows that the problem is affecting more than a 'few' people, although why jinx20001 voted 'yes', I don't know, since he admits he's never heard them

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - View Poll Results

Even if you discount his vote, that still leaves 20 people who said 'yes', and 34 who said 'no'. That's a significant amount of W3 users who had problems with sibilance, it's not a 'few'. And for the fortunate ones who don't hear it at all, that's great - but to suggest to potential buyers that sibilance isn't an issue with the right tips is slightly misleading and a little dismissive of those who have had genuine problems with it.

I tried the modded tri-flanges (they HURT!), the Shure Olives, the Image gels, the JAYS tips, and nothing cured the sibilance. Sure, I'd get lucky sometimes, and get an hour or so of bliss, but knowing that 'ssssssssss' was just round the corner totally spoiled my enjoyment of them. And I think it is a gamble to blow $400 on a pair of earphones when 38% of all users have complained about sibilance and fitting problems. They're not good odds at all. I know it's hard for sibilant-free W3 owners to understand how or why anyone else is hearing it, but it can't be disputed that it exists for a LOT of other people.

If ear shape and nozzle length is so crucial to the fit, then it makes perfect sense to me why so many people had problems. And isn't it better to accept that some people just couldn't rectify it, instead of insisting it doesn't exist, because It DOES/DID exist for 38% of us.

Spad - you said:
Quote:
I believe she also found the Westones to be extremely microphonic as well. If I remember correctly, she posted a rather lengthy list of faults she found with the W3
Where did you get all this from? I think you're confusing me with someone else. I didn't say a thing about microphonics because I didn't suffer from it at all. And I didn't post a lengthy list of faults either! The main fault was the sibilance. But at least you got the price right, and my location

EDIT: And since I sorted out the fit the second time round with the IE8, thanks to someone else's, umm... tip - I can now say without reservation that I prefer the IE8 to the W3. No more nasty sssssssssssssssssssssssshocks!

And the $600 was what they cost me after buying them once, selling them at a loss, and buying them again, and, err, selling them again. Not to mention the cost of additional tips. Oh, this is getting depressing
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post #128 of 195
1/10/09 at 5:20am
Quote:
I may have missed it, but did you comment on how the IE8 compares to the TF10?
TF10 is a very good IEM. No disrespect at all. I was able to get a very good seal with a large silicon tip. As I discussed here, it is a very fun IEM. Comparatively TF10 has better balanced bass quantitatively. It doesn't have a slight mid bass hump. But qualitatively I prefer IE8's bass, while being little unhappy about mid-bass. IE8 has better definition, energy, layering and decay in lower registers. IE8 has better mids. TF10 has laid back mids. The mids of IE8 is more forward. Better imaging and layering. There was mild harshness before I listened first in upper mid registers. But now nicely settled with little burning. TF10 has better highs. Very energetic and forward. Only issue I feel there is mild brightness of highs sometimes. I mean little more energy than natural highs sounds. IE8 should be more energetic in that aspect but I think IE8 gives more realistic treble responge than TF10.
But I think the methodology of analysis of sound dissecting them with surgeon's knife has a major flaw as well. I am not a sound engineer. But I have been a music lover for many years and have been trying many high end stuff. (Including home systems) I am a consultant medical man (doc), who knows the flaws of dissecting natural phenomena, in science, to understand the whole process. It is very difficult to appreciate the whole processes, when they are in intricate and subtle yet strong interactions. Great analogy would be clinical trials.
The same time, personal judgement and preferences in appreciating the overall sound quality is so biased and dependent on personal preferences too.
What IE8 does well, is bringing the musical enjoyment to a greater height. It while being little bass heavy gives unsurpassed performance in coherency and imaging. I am not prepared to compare it with W3 now as my listening experience has been very short. I will do when they arrive at my door step.
Back to TF10! I think it is a very fun IEM with very detailed sound quality. The classical V shape would appeal many people. Apart from comfort issues some experience it gives very good isolation and overall enjoyment of music.
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post #129 of 195
1/10/09 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soozieq View Post
Even if you discount his vote, that still leaves 20 people who said 'yes', and 34 who said 'no'. That's a significant amount of W3 users who had problems with sibilance, it's not a 'few'. And for the fortunate ones who don't hear it at all, that's great - but to suggest to potential buyers that sibilance isn't an issue with the right tips is slightly misleading and a little dismissive of those who have had genuine problems with it.
soozieq, I also have sibilance issues with the short encounter. But I liked the overall sound quality. It was a too short encounter. I am getting a new pair.
Now if you forget the sibilance, how do you compare the of IE8 vs W3? specially with regards to tonal balance and imaging?
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post #130 of 195
1/10/09 at 5:40am
Thanks soozieq and kaushama. I appreciate your comments.
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post #131 of 195
1/10/09 at 6:18am
Quote:
Highs quality: 7
Highs extension: 10
Quote:
You will notice that although I gave the IE8 a lot of 10s, the one major flaw for me was "highs quality".........if you have a headphone where everything is a 10, but the highs are just slightly above average, then its better to have a headphone where the bass, mids and highs are all a 9. I'd venture to say the Westones have a bass which could be ranked as a 10 if I wasn't being the most discriminatory of folk. The highs of the Westone are the best I've heard in an IEM and the mids are only outclassed by the SE530s and possibly the IE8.
Quote:
My issue with the IE8's sound is that while the air provides major benefits, the treble response at times can detract from the transparency of the music. I sometimes find the treble to possess a bit of "grain" as they say and even at time I would say there are moments of shrillness. Notice I say MOMENTS, it's not constantly shrill. These are the most sensitive IEMs I've ever heard and can make music sound awful if recorded awfully.
David, Am I correct if I deduce that you didn't like the treble quality as it has grain and shrillness? I gather you have sufficiently burnt it in as well.
You say the treble extension is 10. So it's the quality that suffers? Quality in terms of what attributes? Timbre and deacy? Transparency? Brightness? Shrill?
Could you please be more elaborative? I feel there is little lack of extension as well. At least out of the box.

Quote:
Bass impact: 10
Bass extension: 10
Bass quality: 10
What do you think about quantity and distribution? Do you think is has more bass than deserved to be called balanced bass response? Is there a mid-bass hump?? Do you think there is a flaw in bass registers skewing the over-all frequency response?
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post #132 of 195
1/10/09 at 8:32am
soozieq did u find sibilance problems in the TF10 as prevalent as in the w3?
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post #133 of 195
1/10/09 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soozieq View Post
I keep reading of W3 owners who claim sibilance isn't an issue for most people, or that if it is an issue - then it's easily remedied with the 'right' tip. But this poll shows that the problem is affecting more than a 'few' people, although why jinx20001 voted 'yes', I don't know, since he admits he's never heard them

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - View Poll Results

Even if you discount his vote, that still leaves 20 people who said 'yes', and 34 who said 'no'. That's a significant amount of W3 users who had problems with sibilance, it's not a 'few'. And for the fortunate ones who don't hear it at all, that's great - but to suggest to potential buyers that sibilance isn't an issue with the right tips is slightly misleading and a little dismissive of those who have had genuine problems with it.

I tried the modded tri-flanges (they HURT!), the Shure Olives, the Image gels, the JAYS tips, and nothing cured the sibilance. Sure, I'd get lucky sometimes, and get an hour or so of bliss, but knowing that 'ssssssssss' was just round the corner totally spoiled my enjoyment of them. And I think it is a gamble to blow $400 on a pair of earphones when 38% of all users have complained about sibilance and fitting problems. They're not good odds at all. I know it's hard for sibilant-free W3 owners to understand how or why anyone else is hearing it, but it can't be disputed that it exists for a LOT of other people.

If ear shape and nozzle length is so crucial to the fit, then it makes perfect sense to me why so many people had problems. And isn't it better to accept that some people just couldn't rectify it, instead of insisting it doesn't exist, because It DOES/DID exist for 38% of us.

Spad - you said:
Where did you get all this from? I think you're confusing me with someone else. I didn't say a thing about microphonics because I didn't suffer from it at all. And I didn't post a lengthy list of faults either! The main fault was the sibilance. But at least you got the price right, and my location

EDIT: And since I sorted out the fit the second time round with the IE8, thanks to someone else's, umm... tip - I can now say without reservation that I prefer the IE8 to the W3. No more nasty sssssssssssssssssssssssshocks!

And the $600 was what they cost me after buying them once, selling them at a loss, and buying them again, and, err, selling them again. Not to mention the cost of additional tips. Oh, this is getting depressing

Not discounting what you've experienced, but where do you get this 38% figure as if that's the percentage from ALL W3 owners (worldwide)? Granted you based it off a 'non-scientific' survey taken here. I just want to make sure we're not confusing the possible facts. I think ANY headphone purchse universal or custom is a gamble. Each user hears something different and you don't know until you listen. Buying the IE8 is a gamble, considering my preferences are different than yours.
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post #134 of 195
1/10/09 at 11:45am
38% of respondents in a thread poll on head-fi is as scientific a response as you are going to get.

Sure, it's not scientific in any real sense - but the one bit of information you can glean from the poll, assuming you don't suspect many of these people to be involved in a nefarious scheme to spread disinformation about the W3 on the interwebs, is that there are a sizable amount of people who have problems with the W3 in this area.

I was one of them. Without using the long comply's the W3's attacked my eardrums with those sssssss's. Even after mostly getting rid of the sibilance the W3 wasn't for me - but I believe the point she was trying to make is totally valid.
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post #135 of 195
1/10/09 at 11:53am
Dave, i send you an email since your PM is full.
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