Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › PC to Mac: My Not-So-Genius Switch
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PC to Mac: My Not-So-Genius Switch - Page 36  

post #526 of 637


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post

Compared to a PC macs do very little, but what they can do they do very well.



Please explain!

Cause how I see it you can do exactly the same on a Mac as you can on a PC. If you mean running specialized MS Windows application a Mac can run them as well. Either using Wine or native on MS Windows.

post #527 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post


 


Please explain!

Cause how I see it you can do exactly the same on a Mac as you can on a PC. If you mean running specialized MS Windows application a Mac can run them as well. Either using Wine or native on MS Windows.


It's late, so I'll give a partial answer now and a better one later. Basically, allow me to state the obvious.

 

1) Upgradability

     I cannot describe how much the lack of this feature annoys me with macs. Let's say I have a three year old computer that I would like to touch up a bit. With a PC I can buy a little extra RAM, maybe add another hard drive while I'm at it, and suddenly it's like I have a brand new machine. Not so with a mac. This relates to point 3 directly -- price.

 

2) Compatability

     Software and hardware, it simpy is a fact that you'll have an easier time installing things on a PC. Sure, macs have their own versions of most of the common consumer programs, but for the most part they lack features in comparison to everything else that's out there.

 

3) Price

     Per unit performance, macs have a considerable premium attached to the sticker price in relation to PCs. This problem is only exacerbated by the lack of upgradability.

 

4) Operating System

     I don't like the apple philosophy of insulating the user as much as possible from the inner workings of the OS and machine. I would much rather be able to control, modify, and tweak when necessary. 

 

Edit: Post 4 is where the discussion about how macs don't do as much as a PC will fall into, but it is too late now and I'm too tired to go into depth right now. Give me a chance to sleep and I promise to give a better, much more in depth answer tomorrow.


Edited by JxK - 5/28/10 at 8:34pm
post #528 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post




It's late, so I'll give a partial answer now and a better one later. Basically, allow me to state the obvious.

 

1) Upgradability

     I cannot describe how much the lack of this feature annoys me with macs. Let's say I have a three year old computer that I would like to touch up a bit. With a PC I can buy a little extra RAM, maybe add another hard drive while I'm at it, and suddenly it's like I have a brand new machine. Not so with a mac. This relates to point 3 directly -- price.

 

You can add RAM to macs the same way you can to Pcs. You can buy generic RAM for decent prices. Unless you use a 64 bit os, over 3.5 gigs is not recognized anyways... osx is 64 bit. Reformatting would benefit old computers more than adding RAM in most cases and that is free... Unless you are talking graphics card, the upgrade is pretty much a non issue. Macs can have their processor upgraded by knowledgeable users the same way pcs can, especially the tower macs. 

 

2) Compatability

     Software and hardware, it simpy is a fact that you'll have an easier time installing things on a PC. Sure, macs have their own versions of most of the common consumer programs, but for the most part they lack features in comparison to everything else that's out there.

 

If it is a microsoft product, the program will pale in comparison to the windows counter part, but most programs are ports - they are pretty much 100% the same product. Apple also preinstalls programs that will get the majority of users buy without ever needing to install anything else.

 

3) Price

     Per unit performance, macs have a considerable premium attached to the sticker price in relation to PCs. This problem is only exacerbated by the lack of upgradability.

 

They do have a premium, but you pay for the up time, the reliability, and ease of use. PC repair and diagnostics are very expensive in the long run. So it is like buying a Japanese car instead of an American one. You pay upfront for a Japanese and very little down the line, the American cars are cheap up front and very costly down the line when they fail repeatedly.

 

4) Operating System

     I don't like the apple philosophy of insulating the user as much as possible from the inner workings of the OS and machine. I would much rather be able to control, modify, and tweak when necessary. 

 

OSX can be controlled directly from the terminal and actually supports a lot of linux code and commands. There is a very deep level on control, but you need to know how to do it. If i am not mistaken even the kernel like linux can be modified. 

 

Edit: Post 4 is where the discussion about how macs don't do as much as a PC will fall into, but it is too late now and I'm too tired to go into depth right now. Give me a chance to sleep and I promise to give a better, much more in depth answer tomorrow.

 

Counter arguments in bold above.


So, the obvious reasons you provided were only the result of a novice MAC user, or an assumptive PC user. 

 

Unless you are gaming, there really is no use for a PC. 

 

Also, MACs have been very competitive for PCs the past few years, but up and down. The first MAC pro was one of the first quad core computers, and was a full 1000$ less than a competing Dell. Macbooks provide great quality parts, without the bloat and garbage that comes on pc laptops. For a long time Mac books were the best, and are still some of the best although they are less competitive since PC laptops dropped their prices. Mac books also have stellar battery life and do things like start up and shut down extremely fast - key for students. 

post #529 of 637

1) it's no harder to add hard drive and memory to a mac than it is a pc

2) in my experience, the mac versions of the software is generally better.  The exception is malware and virus checking software.  The mac versions of those are terrible

3) the flip side of the price argument is that macs hold their value.  Total cost of ownership after 3 years is lower for the mac, because you have resale value.

4) mac osx gives you MORE not less access to the underpinnings of the operating system.  Darwin/bsd is way more flexible than dos/cmd.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post




It's late, so I'll give a partial answer now and a better one later. Basically, allow me to state the obvious.

 

1) Upgradability

     I cannot describe how much the lack of this feature annoys me with macs. Let's say I have a three year old computer that I would like to touch up a bit. With a PC I can buy a little extra RAM, maybe add another hard drive while I'm at it, and suddenly it's like I have a brand new machine. Not so with a mac. This relates to point 3 directly -- price.

 

2) Compatability

     Software and hardware, it simpy is a fact that you'll have an easier time installing things on a PC. Sure, macs have their own versions of most of the common consumer programs, but for the most part they lack features in comparison to everything else that's out there.

 

3) Price

     Per unit performance, macs have a considerable premium attached to the sticker price in relation to PCs. This problem is only exacerbated by the lack of upgradability.

 

4) Operating System

     I don't like the apple philosophy of insulating the user as much as possible from the inner workings of the OS and machine. I would much rather be able to control, modify, and tweak when necessary. 

 

Edit: Post 4 is where the discussion about how macs don't do as much as a PC will fall into, but it is too late now and I'm too tired to go into depth right now. Give me a chance to sleep and I promise to give a better, much more in depth answer tomorrow.

post #530 of 637

Haha pwnd...

 

What you wanna think, and what is actually the case aren't always homogenous JxK

post #531 of 637

I'm trying to think if I've ever heard an intelligent "pc is better than mac" argument, and I can't think of one.  They are always full of very old ideas that may or may not have been true years ago.  People who actually know how to use both systems don't make such strong statements and while they may have preferences, they can layout the advantages of each. 

 

Of course, there are certain situations or uses that a pc will be better for.  But there are also certain situations and uses that macs are clearly better for.

post #532 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post

1) it's no harder to add hard drive and memory to a mac than it is a pc

2) in my experience, the mac versions of the software is generally better.  The exception is malware and virus checking software.  The mac versions of those are terrible

3) the flip side of the price argument is that macs hold their value.  Total cost of ownership after 3 years is lower for the mac, because you have resale value.

4) mac osx gives you MORE not less access to the underpinnings of the operating system.  Darwin/bsd is way more flexible than dos/cmd.
 


 

My only experience is trying to access raw block devices for reading and writing in Mac OSX and, while it may not be very useful in this discussion, Apple placed some pretty hefty restrictions and gave me a huge headache. As I also don't like Apple's toolchain, I try not to develop for Mac.
 

post #533 of 637

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

so my two year old mac pro with 2 x 3 GHz processor and 13 GB ram and 6 x 2TB hard drives is a kids bicycle?  Absurd.  It's totally understandable that you want a PC so you can customize it and tinker with it.  But it's a bunch of rubbish that somehow a pc is faster or better in any other way.  It's debatable whether it's even that much cheaper.  And if you know what you're doing, macs are plenty customizable. 

 

But I'm not a computer geek, I don't care about computers except for what they allow me to do.  I want them to work so I can spend my time using them to create things.  PC's drive me nuts.  I have no intention of learning a foreign language so that I can use my computer.  Like I said, I understand if that's what floats your boat, but the image you posted is a bit idiotic to be honest
 


 

 

Sick set-up.  I use a Macbook for personal use, in my opinion, my time is worth more than antivirus scans, reformatting, etc.  I don't work for my computer, it works for me.  Have a Macbook w/ 1.83ghz core 2 duo, 4GB RAM 2x320GB internal HDs that I set up for $550.  

 

Soon moving up to a Macbook Pro 2.4ghz core 2 duo, 8GB RAM & 500GB 7200rpm HD for $1200.  

 

Macs can be cheap too.

post #534 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

so my two year old mac pro with 2 x 3 GHz processor and 13 GB ram and 6 x 2TB hard drives is a kids bicycle?


2 x 3Ghz? So a dual core? Is that a Wolfdale Intel processor (E8xxx) or, god forbid, an old Pentium D which isn't a true dual-core? I'd assume Wolfdale, which is fast but not by today's standards.

 

How and/or why do you have 13GB of RAM? 6 x 2GB and 2 x 512MB? Or is this a typing error?

 

I've been meaning to ask, but haven't felt the need to post.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Soon moving up to a Macbook Pro 2.4ghz core 2 duo, 8GB RAM & 500GB 7200rpm HD for $1200.  


How is that cheap? I can buy a laptop with half the RAM and otherwise similar specs for under a grand, probably under $800 (not up to speed on laptop prices).

 

I personally wouldn't pay so much extra for what's nothing but the looks and the OS. But I know how to use Windows, and I guess I understand some people's reasoning. I discovered last week that my mom didn't know she could copy and paste with the right mouse button or the keyboard, and has for years been using the File menu. Some people are just made for Mac.

post #535 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post
I discovered last week that my mom didn't know she could copy and paste with the right mouse button or the keyboard, and has for years been using the File menu. Some people are just made for Mac.


for some people, the act of using a computer isn't what is fun, it's what you can do/make with a computer that is fun.  I would say that sums up a lot of the mac crowd.  It has nothing to do with intelligence.

post #536 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

for some people, the act of using a computer isn't what is fun, it's what you can do/make with a computer that is fun.  I would say that sums up a lot of the mac crowd.  It has nothing to do with intelligence.


How does that sum up the Mac crowd when PCs can do just as much or more?

 

Also, can you at least figure out if your Mac had 12 or 13GB of RAM? I'm actually kinda interested in knowing if they really did do something silly like 13 


Edited by Head Injury - 5/29/10 at 11:32am
post #537 of 637

what I'm saying is that the PC crowd generally enjoys the process of tinkering with their computer to make it work as it should.  They may also have fun with whatever they do with their computer, but they also like putting the computer together, working on it, etc.  The mac crowd does not enjoy working on their computer, they enjoy working with their computer to do things or make things. Not always true, definitely a generalization.

 

Here's a picture.  names have been changed to protect the innocent

 

edit: no, it didn't come this way, it is one of the customize/upgrades that wasn't supposed to be possible on a mac.  But it was pretty easy.

 

Screen shot.jpgScreen shot 2010-05-29 at 11.59.19 AM copy.jpg


Edited by rhythmdevils - 5/29/10 at 12:11pm
post #538 of 637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

How is that cheap? I can buy a laptop with half the RAM and otherwise similar specs for under a grand, probably under $800 (not up to speed on laptop prices).

 

I personally wouldn't pay so much extra for what's nothing but the looks and the OS. But I know how to use Windows, and I guess I understand some people's reasoning. I discovered last week that my mom didn't know she could copy and paste with the right mouse button or the keyboard, and has for years been using the File menu. Some people are just made for Mac.


4GB of DDR3 on a single chip costs about $350-400 at this point.  So your point is?

 

You have to use right-click or the keyboard to copy/paste in a Mac too.  Have you ever used OS X?  

post #539 of 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

You have to use right-click or the keyboard to copy/paste in a Mac too.  Have you ever used OS X?  

 

Yep, and I know that. I also enjoyed the smart-ass smiley there on the end 

 

I'm saying there are some people not knowledgeable about the uses or workings of a PC who would prefer a Mac. This was just used as an example. She would be equally useless with a Mac, if not more so.

 

$304.99. Of course, I don't know how fast the RAM in your laptop will be. I'm also in the camp that believes 8GB of RAM is unnecessary for most applications, especially in laptops, but I understand if you want it or could use it that it costs more. What are you planning on doing with your laptop, image and video editing?

 

While I'm on Newegg, here's a good comparable laptop. It even comes with a pretty good mobile GPU. Bad battery life because of it, but a little looking around will find one without it. $300 for that RAM and this and you've got a $1000 system that's just as good for image and video editing and can play some games without breaking a sweat, too.

 

$1200, already has 8GB RAM, faster processor, also has a GPU.


Edited by Head Injury - 5/29/10 at 1:56pm
post #540 of 637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

 

Yep, and I know that. I also enjoyed the smart-ass smiley there on the end 

 

I'm saying there are some people not knowledgeable about the uses or workings of a PC who would prefer a Mac. This was just used as an example. She would be equally useless with a Mac, if not more so.

 

$304.99. Of course, I don't know how fast the RAM in your laptop will be. I'm also in the camp that believes 8GB of RAM is unnecessary for most applications, especially in laptops, but I understand if you want it or could use it that it costs more. What are you planning on doing with your laptop, image and video editing?

 

While I'm on Newegg, here's a good comparable laptop. It even comes with a pretty good mobile GPU. Bad battery life because of it, but a little looking around will find one without it. $300 for that RAM and this and you've got a $1000 system that's just as good for image and video editing and can play some games without breaking a sweat, too.

 

$1200, already has 8GB RAM, faster processor, also has a GPU.

 

I thought your example had something to do with the "some people are just made for mac" that came right after it.  So that's why I didn't get the whole copy-paste example.  

 

Anyway, I wasn't trying to compare hardware set-ups, obviously PCs are cheaper, I'm just trying to point out that if you're willing to buy used & put in a little elbow grease, they're affordable and not as expensive are people like to make out.  I was just pointing out the fact that OS X is largely more reliable, and requires less babying than Windows, which is important to me.  And if you have to pay a little extra for hardware that works seamlessly with a superior OS in most respects, then so be it.  If there was a full-size laptop that worked seamlessly with OS X like the Dell Mini 10v netbook does, then I would probably buy that.  But for now, OS X is just plain 'money' and therefore hardware that supports it perfectly is too.

 

As far as 8gb not being useful, I'm in the camp that believes that in 4-5 years it will be, and 4-5 years down the line, you can still be in your first OS X install running perfectly smooth.  Not one maintenance measure in between.  At least, that's the experience I had, so I'm sold on the OS.


Edited by sphinxvc - 5/29/10 at 6:14pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › PC to Mac: My Not-So-Genius Switch