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The MMA thread (Affliction, UFC, DREAM, Strikeforce, etc.) - Page 14

post #196 of 671
I like your idea Graph....no rounds either. Lets go back to old school UFC. Or at least maybe do a Pride 10 minute first round.
post #197 of 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
Why would anyone want to see 2 guys basically dance around in there underwear for 20 minutes? Fighters are made to think technical because of the judges, this I think affects there fighting style... most fighters aren't scared to get hit but when they know they accrue points for dancing and dodging thats what they end up doing. And that's exactly what I'm getting at, take away the judges, get rid of the drama and let's see some fights!
that would defy the purpose. mixed martial arts, as it name implies, is an art. the goal behind it is to be as effective and efficient as you can while taking the least amount of damage. the technical aspect of it is all part of the game. if it wasn't, it would be just a regular street brawl and would not be MMA. a technical fight can be very entertaining and exciting if you are paying attention to what they are doing.

i think what you are suggesting here is just a plain no rules street fight. that would probably be too violent for "mainstream" tv and won't be considered a real sport. it is a good idea though and would probably make good money, but i'm sure some people have thought of that before.

judging is out of their control, but they can change the ruling system. Dana just needs to make revisions to the system to make it more "fair".
post #198 of 671
Exactly right, martial arts is to be as effective and efficient, and to use as few steps as possibly to take down your opponent, something completely missing from the UFC. If you've ever read or even know of Bruce Lees Tao of Jeet Kune Do you will know it's all about getting rid of the art form, the dancing, and taking out your opponent in as few steps as possible. That should be the technical aspect, not being scared to attack because you don't want to give points away. Anyone who's study a martial art will know it's easier to beat your opponent in a defensive stance, thus letting your opponent attack. We see way too much of this, I don't like it, the UFC president doesn't like it, the crowed doesn't like it... You say a technical fight can be entertaining but to who? Listen to the paying fans when fights go technical, they aren't enjoying it and even start booing.

I am in no way suggesting a street fight, I think it's great they don't head butt or kick to the groin etc, I just want to see more action... if they are any good at there martial art they should be able to win within the first round. I'm borderline over the idea they are somewhat staged, perhaps given more money for the duration of the fight.

Yeah judging is out of their control but it's killing the sport, IF they really have to be there they need a new point system, kicks should count, being the aggressor should too!
post #199 of 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
martial arts is to be as effective and efficient, and to use as few steps as possibly to take down your opponent, something completely missing from the UFC.
i don't think that it is missing. we just haven't seen a fighter that has perfected it to that level yet. of all the fighters, i think anderson silva is one of the best in terms of perfecting this goal. he has the most accurate and precise strikes of all the fighters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
If you've ever read or even know of Bruce Lees Tao of Jeet Kune Do you will know it's all about getting rid of the art form
...i am familiar with jeet kune do, but have not studied it. please clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
taking out your opponent in as few steps as possible...That should be the technical aspect, not being scared to attack because you don't want to give points away.
if you are referring to the shogun-machida fight, the reason why they were afraid to attack is because they wanted to be cautious and didn't want to leave an opening. this doesn't mean they aren't being technical. just not technical in the way that you are defining it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
it's easier to beat your opponent in a defensive stance, thus letting your opponent attack. We see way too much of this, I don't like it, the UFC president doesn't like it, the crowed doesn't like it... You say a technical fight can be entertaining but to who? Listen to the paying fans when fights go technical, they aren't enjoying it and even start booing.
well it's martial arts. if you don't like it, you shouldn't be watching it. i think what the problem is people are too mislead by those kung fu movies. they just want to watch a real ass kicking and don't understand the art of the sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
if they are any good at there martial art they should be able to win within the first round
it's not that they aren't good at their martial art, but maybe that the opponent is just as good? that is what happens when you have 2 great fighters put together, it's pretty much a battle of perseverance.
post #200 of 671
"if they are any good at there martial art they should be able to win within the first round"

Most mma fighters are a mashup of styles now and if you're only good at one form of martial art, you can get beaten pretty badly; case in point: Demian Maia is widely considered to be the one of the best practitioners of BJJ in the world, but it didn't save him from getting knocked the f* out by Marquardt within 20 sec.

Alot of boos come from uneducated spectators who expect pure blood sport. As people become more educated about the sport and about different aspects of fighting they'll boo less. I remember when fans used to boo when the fight hit the ground and there was grappling, now you hear fans get excited for something like passing to half guard. I like exciting fights, but excitement isn't just in the form of going in and banging it out like Frye/Takayama.
post #201 of 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile View Post
...i am familiar with jeet kune do, but have not studied it. please clarify.
Bruce Lee said:
I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy.

Bruce Lee has been considered by UFC president Dana White as the "father of mixed martial arts". Many consider Jeet Kune Do to be the precursor of MMA because of its synthetic nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
Most mma fighters are a mashup of styles now and if you're only good at one form of martial art, you can get beaten pretty badly; case in point: Demian Maia is widely considered to be the one of the best practitioners of BJJ in the world, but it didn't save him from getting knocked the f* out by Marquardt within 20 sec.
Of course you not only have to know what to do on your feet but on your back as well, the first thing you learn in martial arts is defense, Demian Maia didn't defend himself and got caught... he dropped his hands down to his side and stepped forward, huge mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
A lot of boos come from uneducated spectators who expect pure blood sport. As people become more educated about the sport and about different aspects of fighting they'll boo less. I remember when fans used to boo when the fight hit the ground and there was grappling, now you hear fans get excited for something like passing to half guard.
Yeah I don't like to hear boos for any sport and would never boo personally... perhaps people don't boo anymore in the hopes that it will turn into a ground n' pound, the bloodiest of times in the octagon is when the fight goes to the ground. Fans don't want to see grappling and leg locks, they want hammer fists and elbows to the face. It's our primal instinct and what we pay to watch, you sound like you listen to the commentators too much when they talk about uneducated fans, they only say this to justify the slow boring 'fight'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
I like exciting fights, but excitement isn't just in the form of going in and banging it out like Frye/Takayama.
Well if one of the best fights in MMA history isn't exciting enough for you perhaps you should stick to watching wrestling? Let me ask; what did you think of the Frank Mir vs Brock Lesnar rematch in UFC 100?
post #202 of 671
Nah, it's not from listening to commentators(although i did notice Rogan brings it up a lot sometimes when I don't agree ie Silva/Leites), but it's from actually training in jiu jitsu and training with fighters. I like watching grappling and positional control etc. It's just a different perspective. One of the greatest moments in MMA for me was seeing Nogueira pull off that armbar on Crocop and seeing BJ choke out Hughes. I just personally like the grappling aspect of the sport. And I know some of my friends when they first started watching MMA with me didn't really get it or thought it was boring until they started training with me and actually got a little bit more knowledgeable with knowing what to look for when watching. Yeah, it can get grinding to watch guys grapple, but when I hear people boo it makes me think one of two things: that they're disrespectful and that they don't have a sense of how hard it is.

and when Randy and Big Nog fought? those fans were cheering through those grappling stretches just as much as they were when those two were punching each other in the face. I think fans have started to adjust to a little bit of the technical side of things. That type of fight was perfect to showcase what the sport is about.

and i didn't really have an opinion on the lesnar fight; it was just interesting to see how he's evolved and learned to adapt his skill set(or size) to win.
post #203 of 671
Yay! Fedor KTFO's another one!
post #204 of 671
that was a pretty good fight. i also enjoyed the silva-verdum fight. bret rogers had a pretty good game plan and he was doing good at submission defense, but he f'd up though leaving himself open. i thought the commentary was annoying as hell.
post #205 of 671
It was overall a very enjoyable night. The only boring fight being the Mayhem Miller/Jake Shields one. I almost fell asleep.
What a one punch ko Fedor produced! I like his striking- no jabs. no combinations. Every punch was timed for a knock out. Brett Rogers should be proud of himself for delivering a good performance. I saw him live before and he looked a little uncoordinated at times. Not this time though, I liked how he reacted quickly and be competitive on the ground with Fedor.
post #206 of 671
Shields obviously has great control and positioning, but he's too cautious when he's in mount or has the guy's back; I wish Mayhem had 10 more seconds to make Shields go unconscious with that RNC.
post #207 of 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
Shields obviously has great control and positioning, but he's too cautious when he's in mount or has the guy's back; I wish Mayhem had 10 more seconds to make Shields go unconscious with that RNC.
So do I. Shield was lucky to have been saved by the bell.
Mayhem's inability to defend Shield's take down attemps was his downfall. I wanted him to win though.
post #208 of 671
Wow the Kimbo fight was a snooze fest, minus about a minute of the fight.
post #209 of 671
Overall, lots of good interesting matches and many surprises. Kimbo made a good improvement with his ground game since his fights in TUF, I was pretty impressed. That fight looked a little rigged though, what the hell was Houston Alexander doing?! I was sad that Big Baby loss again, he really needs to work on his standup. I also wanted titties to win; McSweeney is too cocky. I think many of us didn't expect Big Country to get the title either.
post #210 of 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by laxx View Post
Wow the Kimbo fight was a snooze fest, minus about a minute of the fight.

Minus the part where he picked up Houston like a sack of potatoes and slammed him.
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