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The MMA thread (Affliction, UFC, DREAM, Strikeforce, etc.) - Page 11

post #151 of 671
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Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Both. Are you comparing fighters just based on their last fights?
Brock has looked good (most of the time dominant) in all of his fights.

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Those "split" seconds happen all the time in fights. Brock was and still inexperienced and Mir took advantage of Brock's off-guard. Fair win for Mir. Even Fedor is vulnerable to these things.
Yeah I know. Thanks for backing up my point. He got caught and it happens to the best of them (Anderson Silva, GSP). Where do you see that Brock is so raw exactly and how has it affected him so far? He's obviously not a "K-1 level striker" but he has gotten the best of every opponent he has faced on the feet. He fixed the error he made against Mir the first time around and in the second fight he even stayed in Mir's (BJJ black belt) guard and not only avoided being subbed, he proceeded to smash him. That's what you'd expect a good fighter to do.

Brock is inexperienced, but most of the guys in MMA who are "experienced" came up fighting in the earlier days when opponents weren't so skilled. In the UFC heavyweight division there were good fighters like Couture, Mir, Arlovski, and Sylvia, but they were fighting guys like Wes Simms, Cabbage, Gan McGee, etc. In Pride there was Fedor, CC, Nog, Barnett, but they were mostly fighting Randleman, Fujita, etc. Brock has the advantage of the collected knowledge gained from the sport's development so he knows how to train better today to make greater strides in a shorter period of time than fighters of yesterday. And it also doesn't hurt that he is a decorated Div 1 collegiate wrestler.

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Undefeated against old Randy and one win over Mir? Wow, what an accomplishment.
It kind of is. Considering he has only 5 pro fights and he has beaten two of the handful of UFC heavyweight champions. I don't get it, did you need him to beat down a bunch of gatekeepers first? How is this not impressive? I know Randy is 46, but just last year wasn't he beating down Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga?

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Yes, as of today there is no equal match for Fedor, unfortunately. Fights with Oversteem and Brock would still be interesting. Even fight with Rogers is interesting since he looks like Arlovski without glass-chin, but who knows, Rogers has no big name fights yet. Of all the fighters Randy is the only one who could have beated Fedor if he was at his peak (i.e. younger).
I don't think anyone is saying Brock is better than Fedor, but do you even want to watch Fedor fight anymore? Who do you propose is a good opponent then? I believe a fight between them is more interesting than a fight with any of those HW's in Strikeforce. Obviously, Josh Barnett had the best resume of any heavyweight in the world to earn the next shot at Fedor and he was the most logical opponent at this point, but he screwed that up.

By beating Randy and Frank, Brock has put himself on the fast track to big fights so I wouldn't think it would be unfair for them to be matched up. It would certainly be more interesting than a fight against Matt Lindland or Hong Man Choi that's for damn sure.
post #152 of 671
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Originally Posted by Cousin Patty View Post
But Brock already beat Randy...thus proving he's better. Its a fight...the guy who wins is better no? Its not like brock goes in there windmilling his arms around. He rushes you, takes you to the ground and kicks your ass.

Someone already did prove that skills can win over size. Mir beat Brock with that heel lock/hook. They fought again and Brock didnt let it happen again and beat him into the ground. Nothing wrong with that..
I agree, at this point Brock is better than Randy. I'm just saying that beating old Randy means nothing, Nog did it too.

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Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
This is the not the same heavyweight division you saw in Pride, where the big freak shows were just size and little skill (Bob Sapp). You can't be comparing Brock to the likes of Bob Sapp and Zulu. His wrestling base coupled with size and strength compensates for A LOT. Brock presents a whole lot of other problems for Fedor.
Having a background in Pride is much better than having a background in WWE (like Brock). He is pretty much re-learning to be a real fighter instead of an actor.

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Originally Posted by Patu View Post
Brock beat Randy Couture so at the moment he's better. There's nothing to argue here. Randy is a legend and once was a top of the world MMA fighter but the guy is 46 years old now. IMO he should retire already and focus on coaching. I really had no interest on Couture vs. Noguiera match on UFC 102, even though it was a great match after all.
Like I said previously, yes Brock was able to beat Randy, but this win means nothing since Randy is too old. I completely agree that Randy should became a couch or something long time ago. He can be the great young coach!

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Originally Posted by Patu View Post
Fedor is technically better than Brock, nothing to argue here either. He's more skilled, better all round fighter etc. but on the heavy weight, size matters A LOT. That's the area where Brock is far ahead of anyone else at the moment. And when you combine his size with amazing speed and good wrestling skills, you have a killer MMA fighter. He's training hard like all the other MMA fighters so I think he should get little respect also. Too bad he acts like a ****** quite often. That won't improve his popularity.
Yep, with a barely one credible win and duchebag acting, he has a long way to go to get any respect.
post #153 of 671
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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Brock has looked good (most of the time dominant) in all of his fights.
Looking "good" is subjective and not enough, you need to have at least several credible solid wins to be a true a champion.

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Yeah I know. Thanks for backing up my point. He got caught and it happens to the best of them (Anderson Silva, GSP).
The point is Frank Mir has a fair win over Brock.

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Where do you see that Brock is so raw exactly and how has it affected him so far? He's obviously not a "K-1 level striker" but he has gotten the best of every opponent he has faced on the feet.
Like I said, his lack of credible wins and WWE background makes him raw/inexperienced to MMA. He might seen the best of Mir but nowhere near the best of what Randy used to do in his prime.

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
He fixed the error he made against Mir the first time around and in the second fight he even stayed in Mir's (BJJ black belt) guard and not only avoided being subbed, he proceeded to smash him. That's what you'd expect a good fighter to do.
I agree, that was an improvement on his part.

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Brock is inexperienced, but most of the guys in MMA who are "experienced" came up fighting in the earlier days when opponents weren't so skilled. In the UFC heavyweight division there were good fighters like Couture, Mir, Arlovski, and Sylvia, but they were fighting guys like Wes Simms, Cabbage, Gan McGee, etc. In Pride there was Fedor, CC, Nog, Barnett, but they were mostly fighting Randleman, Fujita, etc.

Brock has the advantage of the collected knowledge gained from the sport's development so he knows how to train better today to make greater strides in a shorter period of time than fighters of yesterday. And it also doesn't hurt that he is a decorated Div 1 collegiate wrestler.
Every "smart" fighter or at least one with a smart trainer has that "collective knowledge".

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
...I don't get it, did you need him to beat down a bunch of gatekeepers first? How is this not impressive? I know Randy is 46, but just last year wasn't he beating down Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga?
No, having credible wins doesn't mean to beat "gatekeepers". It means you've beaten fighters with good records and ones who were MMA champs at some point. Randy's record is impressive but he is way past his prime. Mir's record is so-so.

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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
I don't think anyone is saying Brock is better than Fedor, but do you even want to watch Fedor fight anymore? Who do you propose is a good opponent then?
MMA has no worthly opponents against Fedor, so Brock, Oversteem and Rogers will suffice.
post #154 of 671
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Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
MMA has no worthly opponents against Fedor, so Brock, Oversteem and Rogers will suffice.
I enjoy watching Brock fight, I'm all about the punching, less for the technical side of fighting. That said I think if there were more people like Brock, as in size and weight I think we'd have another class of fighters and could see something very exciting coming out of that... do you think that'll every happen?... a larger class and the introduction of more Brock-like people in the UFC?
post #155 of 671
Well I don't think there will be a "super heavy weight class" but as I stated earlier, adding people like Kimbo and the 4 nfl pro's in the heavy weight line up (From TUF) would force a lot of the current Heavy weights to move down to light heavy weight and so on. I still think that a lot of the heavy weights that are naturally at 230 or so can make it down to 205. I mean Randy and big Nog should be able to do it, Mir too. That would open up a true heavy weight division where you have fighters like Brock who make weight rather than just walk in
post #156 of 671
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Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
I enjoy watching Brock fight, I'm all about the punching, less for the technical side of fighting. That said I think if there were more people like Brock, as in size and weight I think we'd have another class of fighters and could see something very exciting coming out of that... do you think that'll every happen?... a larger class and the introduction of more Brock-like people in the UFC?
Yes, it would make sense if there would a lot of fighters in the heavyweight class, but at this point there are not that many good heavyweights. Even if you combine UFC with Strikeforce, fighters like Brock, HCM, and Sylvia would be pretty alienated from the rest. And the "rest" will want to fight super heavyweights. So why not let them? :)

It might happen if some Olympic sumo team will decide to join MMA. Brock is pretty good at beating sumo guys. :D

+ YouTube Video
post #157 of 671
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Originally Posted by pdupiano View Post
Well I don't think there will be a "super heavy weight class" but as I stated earlier, adding people like Kimbo and the 4 nfl pro's in the heavy weight line up (From TUF) would force a lot of the current Heavy weights to move down to light heavy weight and so on. I still think that a lot of the heavy weights that are naturally at 230 or so can make it down to 205. I mean Randy and big Nog should be able to do it, Mir too. That would open up a true heavy weight division where you have fighters like Brock who make weight rather than just walk in
I think Kimbo is somewhat of a joke, I mean his street fights are cool n all but he doesn't really fight people that know how to fight back, he lasted what, 10 seconds against Petruzelli. I do think a "super heavy weight class" is needed and honestly I think we might see one, why not.

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Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Yes, it would make sense if there would a lot of fighters in the heavyweight class, but at this point there are not that many good heavyweights. Even if you combine UFC with Strikeforce, fighters like Brock, HCM, and Sylvia would be pretty alienated from the rest. And the "rest" will want to fight super heavyweights. So why not let them?
Well I wouldn't think there 'disallowed' from the UFC, there just isn't a spot for them yet... when I saw Brock sitting on Mir and just punching him in the face I thought well thats all you need to do really. Get some weight on you, learn how to distribute it to keep a man down, hold his hands back and punch his face until he submits. You know after that fight there were a lot of 'UFC is rigged' or 'UFC is a joke like WWE' simply because either Mir fans were pissed a heavy guy sat on him and won or that a heavy guy sat on the smaller guy and thats all it took. I mean Mir has the skills but when you take a guy like Brock that doesn't mean a whole lot, you just gotta keep em pinned.
post #158 of 671
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Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Like I said previously, yes Brock was able to beat Randy, but this win means nothing since Randy is too old. I completely agree that Randy should became a couch or something long time ago. He can be the great young coach!

Yep, with a barely one credible win and duchebag acting, he has a long way to go to get any respect.
It seems to be impossible for you to see past Brock's MMA record. Like that would be all in all in this sports.

I sort of understand why people hate him. Coming to UFC with show wrestling background and gaining heavy weight belt just after few fights + acting like a ******. Well the acting must come from show wrestling. Anyway, if Brock's that bad then maybe there's something wrong with the UFC heavy weight division?
post #159 of 671
Actually there is something wrong with the UFC heavy weight division... Look at it its from 205 - 260. And Brock cuts down to 260. All other heavy weight fighters worth watching are at 220-230 I can't remember seeing a ufc heavy weight pushing the 260 weight limit like Brock.
post #160 of 671
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Originally Posted by Patu View Post
I sort of understand why people hate him. Coming to UFC with show wrestling background and gaining heavy weight belt just after few fights + acting like a ******. Well the acting must come from show wrestling. Anyway, if Brock's that bad then maybe there's something wrong with the UFC heavy weight division?
The acting clearly comes from show wrestling and his stint in the WWE. I think people tend to hate on Brock because of the very little footage they get to see of him when he is in the ring, albeit making a fool out of himself sometimes because of what has been ingrained in him from his acting lessons.

Outside of the ring he seems like a pretty cool laid back guy. Here he is hanging out with Randy last week, before his fight with Nog, talking about where they are going hunting.

YouTube - Randy Couture UFC 102 Video Blog 8/29 - Final Part 1
post #161 of 671
Thread Starter 
As far as I'm concerned as long as Lesnar isn't too asinine with his antics (like slamming on the UFC's main sponsor Bud Light) he'll be great for the company. He's the most polarizing figure in MMA and most fans either love or hate him; case in point I rooted for Mir to score a win over Lesnar and I've never rooted for him before.
post #162 of 671
jezus h christ.... who saw The Ultimate Fighter Season 10 premiere???

That was the bloodiest fight and ugliest cut I've ever seen on MMA!

"At the end of the episode, we see that the gash on <loser>'s head is deep enough that the medic treating him can see a fracture in his skull b...one."

Nasty... *shudders*

Oh... and Rampage with some very good advice: "Do what you gotta do!!!" over and over again...

Really nasty. I can't even talk about Kimbo yet.
post #163 of 671
Rampage seems like he doesn't really care or he seems like a lil kid that wants to pick the biggest guys on the show. Rashad brought on Greg Jackson. Bad news for anyone on Rampage's team.
post #164 of 671
i saw it. Rampage is hilarious. i think the Joe Stevenson-BJ Penn fight was bloodier, but that cut was pretty nasty. Rashad probably has the better/skilled team. this is the most entertaining TUF by far.
post #165 of 671
What about the split decision for Maynard over Huerta? Psssshh, man Maynard won fair and square from my view, no split. I like both the Diaz brothers too, very game. I'd like to see Nate get some more strength somehow...but Melvin as per usual comes out on fire and then gets choked out...lol Good show I thought?
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