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The MMA thread (Affliction, UFC, DREAM, Strikeforce, etc.) - Page 10

post #136 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
He smashed both Frank Mir and Randy Couture. Those are credible wins. I'm not a big fan of Brock, but to dismiss what he has accomplished in his short MMA career this far is absurd. He is a dangerous opponent for anyone, even Fedor. He has a size and strength advantage over anyone, and he moves very quick. He has the most lethal ground and pound in the game now. If he just gets to half guard, you are basically dead.
Like I said, beating Randy Couture today means nothing, the guy is 46 years old. Even Big Nog was able to beat Couture now. As for Frank Mir, Brock lost one and won one so that doesn't really make him great. So as you can see, Brock barely has even one credible win. And who is fighting next? Shane Carwin, the guy who beat nobodies.

Of course Brock can still be dangerous to Fedor just like it was with Sylvia, Hunt, HMC, etc. He just has a long way to go to be in the same league as Fedor.
post #137 of 655
And who is Fedor fighting next? Brett Rogers, the guy who beats nobodies, well maybe andrei arlovski counts if he's still in your top 10. unlikely.
post #138 of 655
True, Rogers is nothing much for Fedor. But unlike Brock, Fedor has a well established record already. Arlovski is just one of his wins over former UFC "champs".
post #139 of 655
I'm not too sure if its fair to say that Randy is no longer relevant. Yes he's old -but they've been saying that for the past 6 years and look at what he's done. Big Nog beat Randy that night because we didn't see the same Randy we saw in some of his recent fights. I'd rather have the Randy from the Tim Sylvia fight and even the Brock fight than the ground and pound "safe approach" Randy.

As for Brock -I agree he lacks credibility. But it's not because he beat Randy or Mir, its because he beat them simply because of his size. Look at how Brock won, his win's required very little, if any skill. His sheer size and weight makes a lot of defense techniques useless. Look at Mir when he was on the ground. Any other MMA fighter that tries that same crap wouldn't get anywhere. When I saw that fight and I saw what looked like "baby punches" to Mir's face, I didn't think much of it. The punches had 0 distance, and had 0 weight behind it. But when Frank got up, his face looked like the old street fighter beat up faces after a fight -all swolen and bloody. I just couldn't believe it. And a similar thing happened with randy. Hammer fists that have no weight on them, knocking out a person like that.. its just his sheer size. I think UFC realized the same thing and sought out Big, huge, fighters for the new TUF season for the specific purpose of "making" a new heavy weight division that would kick out members like Mir, Randy, and other "light" Heavy weights from the Heavy weight division. The fact that Brock has to cut weight to meet the 260 limit is just .... Wow. And now you have a couple of Football players, and other guys who look like they have to make the cut to fight as well. I think the new TUF season will try to introduce more of these types of heavy weights more than anything else and if it works, I don't think we'll see Brock as the heavy weight champ for long. And We'll also see a lot of heavy weight fighters fight at 205 instead.
post #140 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Like I said, beating Randy Couture today means nothing, the guy is 46 years old. Even Big Nog was able to beat Couture now. As for Frank Mir, Brock lost one and won one so that doesn't really make him great. So as you can see, Brock barely has even one credible win. And who is fighting next? Shane Carwin, the guy who beat nobodies.

Of course Brock can still be dangerous to Fedor just like it was with Sylvia, Hunt, HMC, etc. He just has a long way to go to be in the same league as Fedor.
Are you actually watching the fights or just comparing resumes?

The only time Brock has shown his inexperience was in a split second when he got caught by Mir. Basically every other instance in the octagon was him brutally beating down his opponent, even in the first Mir fight. If it weren't for Steve Mazzagatti, Brock would be undefeated today.

Your posts seem to be dismissing every heavyweight in the world as a "nobody" except for Fedor. If not Brock, Randy, or Big Nog, who in your opinion is worthy of fighting Fedor? Brett Rogers? Alistair Overeem? Fabricio Werdum? These are the best guys in Strikeforce. I don't believe any of them pose as much of a threat to Fedor as Brock does.
post #141 of 655
It's funny how people are underestimating or disliking Brock only based on his short MMA career and inexperience. That means nothing when the guy has such a ridiculous size, power, speed and ground and pound. I think that Fedor vs. Brock would be an awesome match and quite even one.
post #142 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patu View Post
It's funny how people are underestimating or disliking Brock only based on his short MMA career and inexperience. That means nothing when the guy has such a ridiculous size, power, speed and ground and pound. I think that Fedor vs. Brock would be an awesome match and quite even one.
Borat & Patu absolutely right........Brock is for real!

He has incredible speed and agility along with massive power and size, he can take anyone down to the mat at will, just too fast and too much wrestling skill. Detractors are living in some fantasy world, he literally destroyed Mir in last fight, and embarassing total beat down.......scary thing is he keeps getting better

Dana White may want to jump on signing Brocks WWF buddy Bobby Lashley another former college wrestling star, has same skill set as Brock very fast, still learning but great potential
post #143 of 655
TUF 10 - Kimbo Slice

I think Spike TV will have a great season with The Ultimate Fighter season 10,
heavyweights with Kimbo Slice, Dana White threw the glove down and we must see if Kimbo has the skill set to respond and make an impression
post #144 of 655
Mark my words Kimbo will be in the very last prelim fight so they can milk his presence as long as possible.
post #145 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Are you actually watching the fights or just comparing resumes?
Both. Are you comparing fighters just based on their last fights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
The only time Brock has shown his inexperience was in a split second when he got caught by Mir.
Those "split" seconds happen all the time in fights. Brock was and still inexperienced and Mir took advantage of Brock's off-guard. Fair win for Mir. Even Fedor is vulnerable to these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
If it weren't for Steve Mazzagatti, Brock would be undefeated today.
Undefeated against old Randy and one win over Mir? Wow, what an accomplishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Your posts seem to be dismissing every heavyweight in the world as a "nobody" except for Fedor. If not Brock, Randy, or Big Nog, who in your opinion is worthy of fighting Fedor? Brett Rogers? Alistair Overeem? Fabricio Werdum? These are the best guys in Strikeforce. I don't believe any of them pose as much of a threat to Fedor as Brock does.
Yes, as of today there is no equal match for Fedor, unfortunately. Fights with Oversteem and Brock would still be interesting. Even fight with Rogers is interesting since he looks like Arlovski without glass-chin, but who knows, Rogers has no big name fights yet. Of all the fighters Randy is the only one who could have beated Fedor if he was at his peak (i.e. younger).
post #146 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdupiano View Post
I'm not too sure if its fair to say that Randy is no longer relevant. Yes he's old -but they've been saying that for the past 6 years and look at what he's done...
Well, for his age, Randy is doing great and still tough to beat for many fighters. Unfortunately, he is not a contender for a champion anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patu View Post
It's funny how people are underestimating or disliking Brock only based on his short MMA career and inexperience. That means nothing when the guy has such a ridiculous size, power, speed and ground and pound. I think that Fedor vs. Brock would be an awesome match and quite even one.
Why should we take him at anything more than "face value"? Based on what he has shown, he is nowhere as good as Fedor or Randy.

Brock is the Valuev of MMA. Sooner or later, someone will show that skills > size.
post #147 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Why should we take him at anything more than "face value"? Based on what he has shown, he is nowhere as good as Fedor or Randy.

Brock is the Valuev of MMA. Sooner or later, someone will show that skills > size.
But Brock already beat Randy...thus proving he's better. Its a fight...the guy who wins is better no? Its not like brock goes in there windmilling his arms around. He rushes you, takes you to the ground and kicks your ass.

Someone already did prove that skills can win over size. Mir beat Brock with that heel lock/hook. They fought again and Brock didnt let it happen again and beat him into the ground. Nothing wrong with that..
post #148 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Why should we take him at anything more than "face value"? Based on what he has shown, he is nowhere as good as Fedor or Randy.

Brock is the Valuev of MMA. Sooner or later, someone will show that skills > size.
Brock beat Randy Couture so at the moment he's better. There's nothing to argue here. Randy is a legend and once was a top of the world MMA fighter but the guy is 46 years old now. IMO he should retire already and focus on coaching. I really had no interest on Couture vs. Noguiera match on UFC 102, even though it was a great match after all.

Fedor is technically better than Brock, nothing to argue here either. He's more skilled, better all round fighter etc. but on the heavy weight, size matters A LOT. That's the area where Brock is far ahead of anyone else at the moment. And when you combine his size with amazing speed and good wrestling skills, you have a killer MMA fighter. He's training hard like all the other MMA fighters so I think he should get little respect also. Too bad he acts like a ****** quite often. That won't improve his popularity.
post #149 of 655
This is the not the same heavyweight division you saw in Pride, where the big freak shows were just size and little skill (Bob Sapp). You can't be comparing Brock to the likes of Bob Sapp and Zulu. His wrestling base coupled with size and strength compensates for A LOT. Brock presents a whole lot of other problems for Fedor.

That being said, we still have no idea on how well Brock can take a punch. I guess Carwin's short arm ko power will tell us. lol
post #150 of 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhancakes View Post
This is the not the same heavyweight division you saw in Pride, where the big freak shows were just size and little skill (Bob Sapp). You can't be comparing Brock to the likes of Bob Sapp and Zulu. His wrestling base coupled with size and strength compensates for A LOT. Brock presents a whole lot of other problems for Fedor.

That being said, we still have no idea on how well Brock can take a punch. I guess Carwin's short arm ko power will tell us. lol
well said, wrestling is a skill and Brock is damn good at it. his ground game and control is very good. i can see Brock being better as long as he works on his striking and gains more experience.

i don't think Brock's chin is that good. Mir would've had him if they kept it standing up.
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