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K702 in the Studio - Page 9

post #121 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post
I start to get the feeling that you actually want to try out the 701s with the ALO cable?? After all, what's good for Steve Hoffman is good for everyone, right??
No, I'd rather continue to use speakers. But I'd bet your curious...

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post #122 of 298

Response to bias

Quote:
Originally Posted by bias View Post
First, your assertion that the NS-10s are flat. This is such an overwhelming misrepresentation that it makes me suspect of your ability to judge other devices in an objective way.

For instance, as we all know, like the NS-10s, the new 70x headphones are not flat (i.e. not accurate) Flatness and accuracy are indeed the same thing because a flat FR by definition does not add or subtract from the signal and thereby gives an "accurate" portrayal of the material in the signal.
I have only one simple response here:
I wouldn't say that "flatness and accuracy are indeed the same thing". What I would say is that flatness (neutrality) is certainly a major component of accuracy.
post #123 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinna View Post
I have only one simple response here:
I wouldn't say that "flatness and accuracy are indeed the same thing". What I would say is that flatness (neutrality) is certainly a major component of accuracy.

I figured that you were probably going to show up at some point and show a good example to Mr. Bias. I was hoping that you might be inspired to guide him gently to speak more from his own experience and not from what he heard about other people's experiences. Maybe he could also be inspired from your experience and encouragement to complete his public profile.
post #124 of 298
In the context of loudspeakers you are correct Peter. Flatness through the freq spectrum is only one aspect of accuracy. Probably the most important from a design perspective, but there are a myriad of other characteristics that should be accounted for. However, headphones are either deficient at many of these other characteristics, e.g., stereo image, dynamic range, etc. or so good at others, e.g., harmonic distortion, transient response time so that when people compare headphones, they mainly focus on one thing: tonal balance e.g., FR.
post #125 of 298
By the way, the ns10s are not flat. They just translate well to good consumer recordings. May be its easy to get used to them for making good recordings, maybe they are similarly voiced with a lot of consumer audio, who knows why they became a standard. Maybe they were just the best for the price back then for all the studios to be able to afford
post #126 of 298
Your review makes sense considering they are a studio headphone. Its the reason I'm writing them off my list of the next headphone to get. Studio listening isn't the same as casual music listening that I do.

Good stuff, glad you found the headphones for your studio work!
post #127 of 298
True whatever makes it work for you. But did you master my mix on the K701? I can hardly believe that.
post #128 of 298
Thread Starter 
You can see in the first fr graph of the Pioneer Monitor 10s, That the line it's flat...The second fr graph the line it's not flat, but balanced, mean that the two sides are equal, on the bass and mids. For monitor headphones both are good the first graph, the Pioneer monitor 10s, will be much more easy to mix with. The K-702 will be more harder to find yourself in the mix first, but after you gain more experience, the work will flow and you will be able to enjoy the benefits of the resolution and the presentation of the K-702s.


Pioneer Monitor 10 Flat frequency response graph.



K-702 Balanced frequency response graph.



More preference to the K-702...





Thanks to JaZZ. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/som...graphs-409732/
post #129 of 298
that first graph is ridiculously flat. but about the k702 thing... that holds true for any high resolution headphone. If you get used to translating to speakers with the hd600s for example, you can get the same results as if you're using k702s
post #130 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post
that first graph is ridiculously flat. but about the k702 thing... that holds true for any high resolution headphone. If you get used to translating to speakers with the hd600s for example, you can get the same results as if you're using k702s
Well...You need some work experience, but yes eventually you will get even better results using the K-702.
post #131 of 298
Nah, Acix what you need is the AKG soundstage and AKG tonal balance, just with a much flatter FR. Best of both worlds.
I present the K601:

Look at that, no peaky bumps at 2 and 7.5khz which fool you into thinking the can has more resolution than it actually does. Look at the stuff below 100 cycles! Bass for days!

Wow!
The FR of the k701 with a balanced cable upgrade (which makes the k701 sound "even better" according to Headphone.com) is not even as flat as the k601!
post #132 of 298
This is exactly the sort of reason that people come to have the impression that measurements don't matter: overly broad theses based on single measurements and inadequately justified dispositive language. There is no such thing as an illusion of resolution unless its distortion masquerading as source material, which you won't know from a simple graph such as this. If it's there, it's there; it doesn't matter if something happens to make it easier for you to hear. A comprehensive test of headphones in terms of "accuracy" would probably involve testing several types of distortion, including using a multitone system with dynamic amplitude modulation as the reference and checking for transient IM or something of that sort. Frequency response with what is probably a unitone system is not a dispositive statement of a headphone's quantitative performance, especially once you factor in individual ear geometry, performance of one's amp and source, and more sophisticated measurements of audio performance both quantitatively and philosophically. The last thing, I think, also calls into question whether some concept of "accuracy" is even relevant; it may very well not be.

So, moral of the story: If you don't like the K701/2, you don't like it. Trying to objectify your argument using some frequency response graphs, however, doesn't lend much fundamental credibility to the disagreement.
post #133 of 298
acix,
I have another graph of the monitor 10 by the way. Somehow that graph you have on top is too good for such an old can, especially when even today they cant make anything that flat. heres a real world measurement of the monitor 10r

It probably doesn't matter though. I just wanted to give you another graph
post #134 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bias View Post
Nah, Acix what you need is the AKG soundstage and AKG tonal balance, just with a much flatter FR. Best of both worlds.
I present the K601:

Look at that, no peaky bumps at 2 and 7.5khz which fool you into thinking the can has more resolution than it actually does. Look at the stuff below 100 cycles! Bass for days!

Wow!
The FR of the k701 with a balanced cable upgrade (which makes the k701 sound "even better" according to Headphone.com) is not even as flat as the k601!
The bell shaped curves on the 8 is mostly noticeable in the first 100 hours of burn in time, after that, it starts to smooth out. But yes, with certain amps it is more noticeable and with others, it's less. The HD/resolution is a result of the AKG Varimotion diaphragm. Regarding the AKG AK 601, indeed, it looks like a very interesting model. I just hope they didn't change the soundstage on this one...I hope it's the same as the 702.
post #135 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post
acix,
I have another graph of the monitor 10 by the way. Somehow that graph you have on top is too good for such an old can, especially when even today they cant make anything that flat. heres a real world measurement of the monitor 10r

It probably doesn't matter though. I just wanted to give you another graph
Did you activate the inquisition again?
BTW, it's the same graph...


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