Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Musical Fidelity V-DAC Owners?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Musical Fidelity V-DAC Owners? - Page 7

post #91 of 875
Well I chime in. I have had the V-Dac for 3 days and used it for about 20 hours. My comparison is with Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic and Asus Xonar D2X. I like the warmth and engaging sound signature, I even noticed those punchy highs anadin talked about, but PRAT seems somewhat off for sure. It is quite detailed and clear, i picked up more microdetails with it than with my other equipment.Bass could be better and have more weight. Xonar has that PRAT I crave for, but it is too neutral for my taste and could be more engaging. If only there would be DAC that could have all the positive traits of Xonar D2X and V-Dac for about the same money - it would be steal money wise. I will continue burning in my V-DAC, but tbh I don't expect miracles to happen. I have never heard CA DAcmagic, but the way it is described makes me precautious. Seems that it sound signature is closer to Xonar and it has more flexibility with different input and output options. I had hopes that this would end my lust for new audio gear, but it seems that I have to save more for MHDT Havana or Paradisea + /3 DAC .
post #92 of 875
Hi argentum,

Thanks a lot for that valuable feedback. I was hoping beyond hope that someone here might actually own both the V-DAC and the Xonar, since for me the Xonar has been quite the benchmark and a real eye opener as to what digital is capable of (the Xonar proved to me that good digital properly done outperforms analogue).

Now I am hesitant to buy the V-DAC given that there is no way to audition one and that I have to buy it from a foreign country. I was hoping it would be as good as the Xonar but it seems increasingly that the Xonar is a hard act to follow (I wonder what the upcoming Essence is going to be like given it's audiophile credentials?).

I am very curious to see what the upcoming Project standalone DAC will be like too, since I know it is going to be incredibly well priced if it comes to Australia. But I fear it's technical specs might be more restricted than the V-DAC - I have to have a DAC that can handle 96 Khz natively and I am worried the Project will only be 44.1 Khz.

Anyway, although your post made my heart sink a bit, it's better to hear these opinions even if they are not what I want to hear.

Thanks for taking the time to make your opinion known and I look forward to further feedback in comparison to the Xonar after you've run it for a few weeks.
post #93 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by argentum View Post
Well I chime in. I have had the V-Dac for 3 days and used it for about 20 hours. My comparison is with Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic and Asus Xonar D2X. I like the warmth and engaging sound signature, I even noticed those punchy highs anadin talked about, but PRAT seems somewhat off for sure. It is quite detailed and clear, i picked up more microdetails with it than with my other equipment.Bass could be better and have more weight. Xonar has that PRAT I crave for, but it is too neutral for my taste and could be more engaging. If only there would be DAC that could have all the positive traits of Xonar D2X and V-Dac for about the same money - it would be steal money wise. I will continue burning in my V-DAC, but tbh I don't expect miracles to happen. I have never heard CA DAcmagic, but the way it is described makes me precautious. Seems that it sound signature is closer to Xonar and it has more flexibility with different input and output options. I had hopes that this would end my lust for new audio gear, but it seems that I have to save more for MHDT Havana or Paradisea + /3 DAC .
I'm kind of new to the concept of "PRAT". Can you explain how the V-DAC does not have pace rhythm and timing in a musical context?
post #94 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsudaMan View Post
I'm kind of new to the concept of "PRAT". Can you explain how the V-DAC does not have pace rhythm and timing in a musical context?
x2
post #95 of 875
Just pulled the trigger and bought one, i was 50:50 between the DACMagic and this but went for this in the end. I've been using my Imod as a source so am interested to see if there is any improvement
post #96 of 875
I am so tempted to pull the trigger. I am 50/50 on this or the Cambridge. Atm I have no DAC so either one would be an improvement.
post #97 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by The-One View Post
x2
x3
post #98 of 875
The problem i had with the MagicDac was the rounded sound. The V-Dac might not be perfect but for £160 its worth trying, if not you should be able to sell it on. On the other hand the DacMagic should keep its price, especially with people outside of the UK
post #99 of 875
I think I'm starting to understand the concept of PRAT as it pertains to the MF V-DAC.

I was listening to late Beethoven Sonatas (Goode) this morning through the V-DAC and was not 100 percent happy with the attacks and sudden dynamic changes. So, I switched over to my Arcam CD73t and was happier with it's ability to convey sudden dynamic shifts and transient attacks/percussive rhythms in the music. However......

I later moved on to Elgar's violin concerto (Hahn) with the arcam and now was not happy with the arcam's clinical approach to string sound and the overall dryness in the sound - in general the tonality of the strings was not natural. I then switched back to the V-DAC and was amazed at how much better it sounded with orchestral music - tonality and overtones are this baby's forte!

I have to say that while the V-DAC suffers from lacking PRAT, it more than makes up for it in the tonality department. The sweetness of tone, the complex overtones of stringed instruments, and the general naturalness of it's presentation are amazing.

For some, this weakness may keep them from buying or keeping this dac. In my experience, being an avid listener of Classical orchestral music, the MF stays and the arcam is relegated to a transport.

BTW, I hooked up the V-DAC to my MF x-10 v3 (tube buffer stage) and really like the combo - seems to add a little to the decay and actually seems to help with the PRAT. Not sure how it does this, might have something to do with the impedance matching. In any case, for those who want some tube magic with their V-DAC, check out the X-10.
post #100 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsudaMan View Post
I'm kind of new to the concept of "PRAT". Can you explain how the V-DAC does not have pace rhythm and timing in a musical context?
PRAT was first discussed in length by the British reviewer Martin Colloms. It is commonly referred, in short, as the toe tapping quality in music. Some seem to equate PRAT as the equivalent of dynamic swing which contribute to musical climax, but actually is more than that. As I understood it, the progression of a musical note can be roughly seen as comprising three elements: the initial attack, the main thrust, and the subsequent decay. Audio equipments with PRAT get the correlation of the three elements in correct proportion, and contribute to the involvement and pleasure when we listen to music. Some have opinined that single-ended audio equipment generally has better PRAT than push-pull counterparts. I tend to agree.

That which make PRAT the more elusive factor in audio is largely the situation that all elements could be there, and therefore nothing seem missing, but they are not in the right proportion to one another. When this happen, audiophiles may detect something not right about the presentation, but the exact "what's wrong" may well elude them.

For example, when the initial attack of the musical note is de-emphaized, music may seem life-less or sluggish. Conversely, when the decay of a music note is not given its due, music may seem fleeting, dry or tense. On first listening every part of the musical note seem to be present, only after careful audition does it become apparant that something is not right with the presentation.

I have not read this, but my search of the "textbook definition" has leaded me to the following long article by Martin Colloms on the subject:

http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Archive_A7.pdf

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, amongst the MF components I auditioned, more than a fair share seem to have PRAT issue of one kind or another. The comments from above seem to confirm it. However, for the $180 price tag of the V-DAC I am purchasing I am not too worried.
post #101 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsudaMan View Post
I later moved on to Elgar's violin concerto (Hahn) with the arcam and now was not happy with the arcam's clinical approach to string sound and the overall dryness in the sound - in general the tonality of the strings was not natural. I then switched back to the V-DAC and was amazed at how much better it sounded with orchestral music - tonality and overtones are this baby's forte!
Thank you. I have that Elgar CD. Infact Hahn is one of my favourite performers of all time. Good to see that it has the endorsement of someone who listens to the same stuff I do. These are exactly the strengths that I am looking for in any reproduction chain whether that be a DAC, amplifier, speakers or headphones. If you can't get the sound of an orchestra right then you might as well give up there and then.

My Sony PCM D50 analogue line out is crisp and clear but does not get the tonaility and overtones right as you put it. My ASUS Xonar does, however. Luckily for me, I bought the D50 knowing it had an optical output just in case I ever wanted an external DAC.
post #102 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeni View Post
PRAT was first discussed in length by the British reviewer Martin Colloms. It is commonly referred, in short, as the toe tapping quality in music. Some seem to equate PRAT as the equivalent of dynamic swing which contribute to musical climax, but actually is more than that. As I understood it, the progression of a musical note can be roughly seen as comprising three elements: the initial attack, the main thrust, and the subsequent decay. Audio equipments with PRAT get the correlation of the three elements in correct proportion, and contribute to the involvement and pleasure when we listen to music. Some have opinined that single-ended audio equipment generally has better PRAT than push-pull counterparts. I tend to agree.

That which make PRAT the more elusive factor in audio is largely the situation that all elements could be there, and therefore nothing seem missing, but they are not in the right proportion to one another. When this happen, audiophiles may detect something not right about the presentation, but the exact "what's wrong" may well elude them.

For example, when the initial attack of the musical note is de-emphaized, music may seem life-less or sluggish. Conversely, when the decay of a music note is not given its due, music may seem fleeting, dry or tense. On first listening every part of the musical note seem to be present, only after careful audition does it become apparant that something is not right with the presentation.

I have not read this, but my search of the "textbook definition" has leaded me to the following long article by Martin Colloms on the subject:

http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Archive_A7.pdf

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, amongst the MF components I auditioned, more than a fair share seem to have PRAT issue of one kind or another. The comments from above seem to confirm it. However, for the $180 price tag of the V-DAC I am purchasing I am not too worried.
Thanks so much for the insightful explanation. I'm starting to understand it (prat) more as I listen to my music through different sources and amps.

I would really love to hear your impressions of the v-dac as it pertains to PRAT.

On a side note, every time I listen to my brother's Audio Note single ended triode amp with his Audio Note speakers, I can't believe how realistic the presentation is. It really sounds like real live music making - a different league than anything I've ever heard in hi-fi shops (there best stuff). It sounds so quick and dynamic with incredible complex tonalities present.
post #103 of 875
Hi, just recieved my V-Dac, have other owners found it improved much during burn-in? and secondly how long would you suggest is a good burn in period for this item?
thank you
post #104 of 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03029174 View Post
Hi, just recieved my V-Dac, have other owners found it improved much during burn-in? and secondly how long would you suggest is a good burn in period for this item?
thank you
Hey congrats on a fine purchase. I've had mine for a couple weeks and have noticed some improvement with burn it. When I first listened to it, I was very happy with the sound signature (warm, lush, complex), but not so happy with it's pacing, rhythim, and timing (PRAT). For example percussion seemed to lack quickness I desired or the right amount of slam. After a some burn in, it has gotten quite a bit faster and smoother at the same time - more congealed and together. I would still say that even after burn in, this DAC is still one that excels in the legato/sustain and tonality department and toe tapping is a second language.
post #105 of 875
thats great, im really enjoying it too, ive got a new amp as well so im sure the sound it only going to improve which is great cos im already very happy
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Musical Fidelity V-DAC Owners?