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The Audio-gd Compass (Was: Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp) - Page 11

post #151 of 7724
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandchak View Post
good approach I must say.. If people recall (maybe its forgotten now), Bursson audio HDAMs were selling close to 80 bucks (dual), when Audio GD came up with the same and if not better HDAMs for around 20 bucks, people did grab it like it was the best thing after the sliced bread- no questions asked.. so its not a wonder with Audio GD coming up with such things..
I could be wrong, but I think Kingwa invented them. His designs are sold under other names, such as Burson.

About the labor costs thing: That's large companies, not a single guy and maybe a couple of other people designing and hand-building gear.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #152 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
I could be wrong, but I think Kingwa invented them. His designs are sold under other names, such as Burson.

About the labor costs thing: That's large companies, not a single guy and maybe a couple of other people designing and hand-building gear.
Even better if you are right, as it says much about him, he is an innovator too..

About labor, I guess one look at the HDAMS and one will know it isn't just a work of a 64cents/hour minimum wage worker, and taking into consideration his location near HK his workers must be paid much higher, I am sure these are works of higher quality workers, like he says, all his labors are hifi enthusiasts and technicians, in fact half of his workers working under his guidance have designing capabilities.. maybe thats the real secret why Compass was developed in such a short period of time..
post #153 of 7724
You guys are somethin' else.

Average Factory worker in US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc $18-$23

Average Factory worker in China 64 cents.

That's apples to apples.

Ahhh, OK Kingwa pays his workers 30% more! 50% More, 100% more, pick your number.

The moral here is that Labor is almost not a factor for Chinese companies compared to everywhere else in the world, with the exception of other Asian countries who are also low, but outrageously high wages compared to China. Singapore and Thailand are higher but still dirt cheap, etc etc. Taiwan is something Like $5/hr.
post #154 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
You guys are somethin' else.

Average Factory worker in US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc $18-$23

Average Factory worker in China 64 cents.

That's apples to apples.

Ahhh, OK Kingwa pays his workers 30% more! 50% More, 100% more, pick your number.

The moral here is that Labor is almost not a factor for Chinese companies compared to everywhere else in the world, with the exception of other Asian countries who are also low, but outrageously high wages compared to China. Singapore and Thailand are higher but still dirt cheap, etc etc. Taiwan is something Like $5/hr.
You know, its no point arguing out here, all you are only looking at, is labor costs and seem to be an expert in that area, so maybe you can answer this too :

How much would you pay to Kingwa for his labor in designing the Compass, what you call brain labor and investment of time, how much would you pay him per hour? or would you say he doesn't deserve to be paid for this project as that is only meant for innovators and designers in the Western World ??..

64 cents??.. 10 times.. 100 times.. make your pick...
post #155 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hi,
Ok, Let's not kid ourselves. The average Labor rate for factory workers in China is 64 cents an hour. They don't have workers comp insurance or any of the other benefits of the US. Who says there will be no profit here, and who believes them?

Let's not say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread till we've seen and HEARD it.

Let's not believe that Audio-gd is so altruistic as to produce these things at a loss for just us.
There's some serious misunderstanding. The person you are replying to is not saying this is some wannabe jesus christ but that he's selling at a very low price TO PROMOTE THE PRODUCT. The simple fact is audio-gd wants more publicity, and even if you think it is pertinent don't drag politics and economics into this because the focus of this topic is on a product.
post #156 of 7724
Just saw some interesting FAQ on the Compass web page.. deals with questions like how so fast the compass was developed, why such low cost taking into consideration the quality of components and Shipping quotes.. interesting..
post #157 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandchak View Post
You know, its no point arguing out here, all you are only looking at, is labor costs and seem to be an expert in that area, so maybe you can answer this too :

How much would you pay to Kingwa for his labor in designing the Compass, what you call brain labor and investment of time, how much would you pay him per hour? or would you say he doesn't deserve to be paid for this project as that is only meant for innovators and designers in the Western World ??..

64 cents??.. 10 times.. 100 times.. make your pick...
Somehow you misunderstood my point. When you said he is doing this all at "NO PROFIT" you open up this line of questioning.

Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

I can understand being interested in a new product from an interesting company that has a good reputation, but saying he is not making a profit SUSPENDS BELIEF. The obvious next question I would ask is why is this guy saying this. What's his end?

In closing, can we keep the subjective and supposition to a minimum, the objective to a maximum, and a moratorium on Fairy Tales.
post #158 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
you start sounding like a company SHILL.
I get more and more concerned about that when I see him saying the same things as the audio-gd site.
post #159 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post
There's some serious misunderstanding. The person you are replying to is not saying this is some wannabe jesus christ but that he's selling at a very low price TO PROMOTE THE PRODUCT. The simple fact is audio-gd wants more publicity, and even if you think it is pertinent don't drag politics and economics into this because the focus of this topic is on a product.
The opening statement was he is doing this at "NO PROFIT". I didn't say that, I responded to it. I pointed out this company has basically no labor costs and that the parts cost less than $250 or whatever his selling point turns pout to be. . It is common sense that this company produces products for making a profit. However, when a few unbelievable statements get made, someone "should" step up and say hold on there, What's your proof for that statement?

Before I drink cool aid, I want a list of ingredients.

I want to hear what people say who have actually seen and DRANK the cool aid.

I'd like to know how the new cool aid compares to old versions of cool aid.

Maybe the new cool aid is better, maybe it's the same, maybe it tastes new but leaves a bad after taste in your mouth.

When I know nobody has seen or drank the cool aid yet, and I start hearing this cool aid is gonna be great, it is gonna taste better than your old cool aid, and the company is producing it as a "Loss Leader", my Antennas perk up and I say whoa!

I might say let's hear this thing first.

I might say NO PROFIT? Yeah right!

Anybody who has been in this hobby for very long, knows that the guy at the high-fi shop has a new wizz bang product each 18 months or so that is WAY better than the last wizz bang product he sold you 18 months before.

Now, there is a legitimate place for this product. One of the driving factors for this product's development was how bad the Zero was from the factory, what had to be done to it after the factory, and how bad some of the vendors were who sold it.

In my defense here, I would have to say, my education is all in the sciences. I appreciate facts, things that are tangible and proven. All we've seen here are artists renderings, and alpha prototype boards.
post #160 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Somehow you misunderstood my point. When you said he is doing this all at "NO PROFIT" you open up this line of questioning.

Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

I can understand being interested in a new product from an interesting company that has a good reputation, but saying he is not making a profit SUSPENDS BELIEF. The obvious next question I would ask is why is this guy saying this. What's his end?

In closing, can we keep the subjective and supposition to a minimum, the objective to a maximum, and a moratorium on Fairy Tales.
First of all I never said, Compass will sound better than this product or that, headfi gives you the ability to quote, maybe you can help me on that. If you cant, then it will open a line of questions, as to why you are so much against Kingwa, then is it fair to assume maybe you are Kingwas Competitors SHILL?

Secondly, I will stick to what I said, that it makes perfect business sense to initially, on the expense of making profit, to promote a product and when the product proves its mettle, to increase the cost.
post #161 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by csroc View Post
I get more and more concerned about that when I see him saying the same things as the audio-gd site.
Can you expand on that?
post #162 of 7724
And I am NO SHILL, I am maybe the first to pay advance for Compass on 19th December, that is the level of faith in the product, and if you guys think by saying such things it will decrease, sorry it wont - I believe Compass looks like a super product AS A CUSTOMER...
post #163 of 7724
And please note, Kingwa was not accepting to take advance, But I forced him to, as this being holiday season, I did want to spend the money on something else and lose out on Compass..
post #164 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandchak View Post
First of all I never said, Compass will sound better than this product or that, headfi gives you the ability to quote, maybe you can help me on that. If you cant, then it will open a line of questions, as to why you are so much against Kingwa, then is it fair to assume maybe you are Kingwas Competitors SHILL?

Secondly, I will stick to what I said, that it makes perfect business sense to initially, on the expense of making profit, to promote a product and when the product proves its mettle, to increase the cost.
Hi,
The point I tried to make here is to be subjective. If it seems like I'm picking on you, I'm not. Your "NO PROFIT" statement was kinda "The Last Straw". I'm sure I'm not the only person here to get the impression that this thread sounds like a marketing tool.

We don't even know what this product looks like yet, other than a drawing.

I can't tell how a product sounds by looking at a web page, and reading an advertisement.

I have nothing against this company, I like "the look" of all their products. The only product of Audio-gd I have, seems to be great(HDAM). I sent out an email to Curra last night to ask if he had any experience with the DAC-8 that I am interested in. I think they have VERY EXCITING products on their web page. I like "THE LOOK" of them all.

I am not hawking any product or manufacturer here, if you hadn't noticed. I AM asking for "subjective" information. Will I buy a Prototype, NO, I won't. Would I buy this after a few hundred pages of reviews once it is released, maybe.
post #165 of 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post
Hi,
The point I tried to make here is to be subjective. If it seems like I'm picking on you, I'm not. Your "NO PROFIT" statement was kinda "The Last Straw". I'm sure I'm not the only person here to get the impression that this thread sounds like a marketing tool.

We don't even know what this product looks like yet, other than a drawing.

I can't tell how a product sounds by looking at a web page, and reading an advertisement.

I have nothing against this company, I like "the look" of all their products. The only product of Audio-gd I have, seems to be great(HDAM). I sent out an email to Curra last night to ask if he had any experience with the DAC-8 that I am interested in. I think they have VERY EXCITING products on their web page. I like "THE LOOK" of them all.

I am not hawking any product or manufacturer here, if you hadn't noticed. I AM asking for "subjective" information. Will I buy a Prototype, NO, I won't. Would I buy this after a few hundred pages of reviews once it is released, maybe.
Les, I do not know who you are particularly aiming at, but:

1 ) You say : Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

You couldn't find where I said Compass will sound better than this or that? Right? So you are wrong accusing me of that statement, I proven I have paid much before this day, so don't I prove you and "csroc", you guys are wrong again accusing me to be a SHILL..

2) I was not the first to say NO PROFIT, I was not corresponding with kingwa on Compass at that period of time (12-3-2008) to get that information, it was Currawong "The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty." and I just trusted a good headfiers word.
You have been a headfier since November and already written 221 posts at an average of 4.5 posts a day, I think you should start reading posts more carefully than just writing away whatever you feel, maybe you will know things before accusing..

3) This post was started as a good cause to search for an alternative for ZERO DAC, Clearly says on the Subject, I am grateful and I repeat I AM GRATEFUL to KINGWA to develop something like Compass and Currawong for initiating the entire thing.. If you think this is a wrong place to hear good things and excitement about Compass, then I guess you are at the wrong place..

Honestly, you have said a lot without knowing who said what.. I have nothing else to say..
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