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why do so many people have terrible taste in music? - Page 18

post #256 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gratefulshrink
I'm just not getting your "bottom line". I am usually a pragmatist. I realize their are biases and limitations in music criticism/appreciation, and that attempts to be purely objective in the assessment of "quality" will be influenced by subjectivity (i.e., taste). But I also expect that an expert (or a panel of experts) will be less biased by subjectivity than an armchair critic. So I trust that trained critics are going on more than whether they like something when they rate it on some scale.

But are you saying that there is no difference at all between subjective response to music and objective critique of music?
There is a difference between subjective response to music and objective critique if for you, the difference exist. In the end, the final question that is most important is: Do I like what I am hearing?

In this idea, if, objective criticism aside, you find yourself subjectively responding (arise of feelings for example) to the music and enjoy it, then what you call objective criticism does not matter anymore, as the final most important question asked is answered.

This is why you set your own standards of music, and why an expert cannot be totally objective in his opinion because you will react to music differently, wether you're objectively criticising or simply subjectively responding in a positive way or negative way to what you're hearing.

What sounds good varies from people to people, depends on life experience and influences, and musical quality should not only be judged by objective criticism but also by subjective response because in the end it is probably what matters most, as you usually begin to enjoy a certain music because of the positive subjective reponse to it, not by whatever objective criticism you can make, as such critics are hard to make the first time you listen to a song.
post #257 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
I note that you haven't edited the original post and have let it stand...
I have edited my typo. Why did'nt you take the initiative and edit your "typo" first, seeing that your "standards" are so high?
post #258 of 270
Deleted.
post #259 of 270
I fear a thread closing soon... am I the last one interested by the subject at hand here?
post #260 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gratefulshrink
But are you saying that there is no difference at all between subjective response to music and objective critique of music?
Yes, I'm saying that both "subjective" response and "objective" critique both exist. Ideally, perception is about objectivity while taste is about subjectivity. We do not seem to be arguing the "subjective taste" issue, because it is taken for granted that taste is personal. And we all seem to understand that objective critiques key off of quality standards, or rules, that the critic has formulated and/or accepted to be true, useful, and self evident. What we seem to be missing is that our "quality standards" are dependent upon our "perceptions". As final products, "Perceptions" are in reference to (both) what we perceive and how we perceive it. Keep following me. Since we will not always perceive things exactly same way, even when we believe ourselves to be "objective" observers, you can (and probably will) end up with several different opinions about what constitutes "quality". Hence, our objective "standards" will vary also. In reality, both subjective response and objective critique are related, not necessarily because we want them to be but because we are slaves to our perceptions. And perhaps, that's the way things must be. "Man is the measure of all things."
post #261 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gratefulshrink
But are you saying that there is no difference at all between subjective response to music and objective critique of music?
Double post.
post #262 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jashugan
I fear a thread closing soon... am I the last one interested by the subject at hand here?
I'm interested in the subject at hand, but since I'm not opposing your stance then the answer is probably "yes". Well see...
post #263 of 270
Today's Grammy nominations include the Yin Yang Twins, Gwen Stefani, Black Eyed Peas, Kelly Clarkson, and many others. This helps to explain why so many people complain about peoples tast in music.

MAybe a better question is why do people listen to such shallow music? Of course, maybe people will argue the idea that depth is wholly subjective, which I believe is ludicrous is well. There is no doubt that what Gwen Stefani does lyrically and musically is more shallow than what John Lennon did.

Still no one of the view that everything is subjective has addressed why we study certain authors in literature or the idea that music is clearly created for different purposes, and how those different purposes reflect a level of depth.

"Tolerance is the virtue of those who do not believe in anything." G.K. Chesterton.
post #264 of 270
Grammy nominations mean nothing because the only place they look to give them is pop music that is constantly played on the radio. Maybe if they actually tried to scrape the surface of underground music they would actually give out some decent awards, because there is much better music in the underground than there is on the radio and MTV. Right now, if you look at the other people winning the awards, it significantly lowers their value because the people who win them have no musical talent what so ever.
post #265 of 270
I think I have a winner for Most Terrible Tune on eMusic at least - and I even downloaded it!

Unforgettable - Ani DiFranco/Jackie Chan179 kbps (VBR)3:54"When Pigs Fly"Various Artists
post #266 of 270
This is starting to sound like "Debian vs. Gentoo vs. Mandrake vs. etc." or "Antec vs. Fortron vs. PC Power & Cooling vs. etc.". Everyone has different likes. Just find what you like and stick with it.

For instance, I never understood the fascination with Avril Lavigne, but some others do. (Actually, I'll try listening again once I install my 24 bit Sound Blaster live, just in case her music requires 24 bits for good quality. But I doubt it.) Likewise, I know that I like Jessica Simpson, Joss Stone, etc., but some others disagree.
As for popularity, there is a reason for it. If the majority of the population likes it, it'll become very popular. But if the majority of the population doesn't like it, very few people will talk about it.
post #267 of 270
I don't understand the hiphop/rap genre. Why would you actually LIKE the lyrics to something degrading women to the fullest or basically talking about getting with someone else's girlfriend and making it seem cool. I know way too many girls (including my girlfriend) that love this stuff and it gets under my skin. Maybe more so now that my girlfriend and I had a falling out over summer when I found out she cheated on me with a friend, but I don't see the taste in it. The beat and sounds may be catchy for a few days, but then I really get sick and tired of hearing it and can't go back to it ever. With blues, rock/alternative, classic rock and classical music, you can listen to it for extended periods of time and not get bored and you can always go back to it.

Like right now I'm back to listening to Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots. Stevie Ray Vaughn, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Eric Clapton always make their way into my playlists, always.
post #268 of 270
If you think all rap is degrading to women, then its not that you dont understand the genere, its that you have simply heard very bad rap. Those type of ltrics are actually a very small subset of rap (unfortunately its the only type MTV seems to play.)

Try:
Talib Qweli
Mos Def
Atmosphere
KRS-One
Common
The Roots

and many others that don't think degrading women is 'cool.'
post #269 of 270

i think people nowadays are more into the "vibe"

of music...hot beats and thumping basslines......rather than deep lyrics and complex harmonies...that is why Hip hop/R&B has been so popular....nothing wrong with that especially when it makes people feel good and shake their bodies
post #270 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by threedd97
Stevie Ray Vaughn, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Eric Clapton always make their way into my playlists, always.
because they kick *****
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