Whats the deal with audio dealers? - Page 11

This is exactly right, and only as long as one understands that the purpose of copyright is to encourage the creation of new works, a meaningful discussion of how copyright protections should be implemented is possible.

However, to those who have made the leap that "intellectual property = physical property" any such discussion appears to be an attack on their perceived natural rights and this makes any real conversation on the topic difficult as evidenced even by this thread.

If intellectual property equals physical or real property, there should be a property tax.

I pay taxes on my real and personal property. Wouldn't it be fair to impose taxes on intellectual property, as well?

If you don't pay taxes on your real property, it is seized and sold to pay the tax debt. If taxes on intellectual property aren't paid, the copyright is forfeited and the work is put into the public domain.

Seems fair to me.

Only in Canada eh!

Canada deems P2P downloading legal - CNET News

That is quite funny actually - downloading is legal, but uploading is not...which does beg the question...

I second that idea.

Intellectual property is taxed -- sellers pay income tax on licenses or sales of intellectual property and purchasers pay sales or use taxes. There are also taxing jurisdictions that have "intangibles" taxes that are comparable to property taxes. Remember what Ronald Reagan said about government: "If it moves, tax it; if it keeps moving, regulate it; if it stops moving, subsidize it." Make no mistake, taxing authorities would be more than happy to tax intellectual property more than they do if they thought they could get away with it. Of course, taxing producers of IP just means that consumers will pay more. Kind of like taxing corporations; everyone thinks "they" will just pay the tax, but guess what, "they" aren't going to lower their profits just because the tax has increased -- they will increase the price of the product or worse, cut expenses such as employee wages. Regards, James

Not entirely true. If you tax the profits of corporations it encourages them to make capitol improvements (infrastructure and such) this usually leads to growth and increases in productivity and employment.

Taxes can and should be used to encourage capitol investment and reinvestment. Low taxes on net profits encourages people and companies to take profits instead of reinvesting them. i.e. low taxes actually discourages growth.

^^^

That would only be valid if the money saved through lower taxes was buried in a hole rather than, say, spent. At best, you can argue that higher taxes direct growth. You would be the first person I'd ever heard argue that higher taxes actually spur growth more than lower taxes would have.

Not every company is capable of dodging taxes through CIP programs. Some just pay the higher taxes. In that case, the only sector growing is government.

John Locke argued that when you 'mix your labor' with a resource property is created, ie, the labor theory of propety is a natural rights theory... not that he is infallible, but it is not nonsense to think that some property rights are nbatural rights, with some restrictions and provisos.

also, while there is overlap bewteen legality and morality, they are two different things, and it is much harder to argue for morality of a behavior than it is to compare it to prevailing laws to determine its legality.

ethical judgments require a theory which specifies what is or isn'r moral, and no one seems to have the faintest idea how to come up with one, or specify the underpinnings of their moral pronoucements. gut feeligs are, at best, a start for moral reflection, they are not a justificatory mechanism at all.

while not the only way to do it, one could say that the basis of morality is when the costs and benefits of membership in a asociety are evenly balanced among the participants (so-called distributive justice).

from this perspective, one can make specific arguments why downloading, bit-torrenting, selling ripped cds, and the like are immoral-- because they are attempts to get 'the better end of the deal', by sharing more in the benefits than the costs of the interaction/transaction.

there are other bases for morality, and most competing moral theories will agree on the bulk of the beahviors in question whether they are mnoral or immoral -- they differ as to the WHY.

now, let's try this again!

Except that the government spends all of its income (and more!). When you want to stimulate the economy, do you give $300 each to 100 million people or $300 million each to 100?

When I want to stimulate economy, I don't give money to the government at all. It spends it all, sure, and in general it spends it in the least efficient way possible. There is little difference between paying someone to do a necessary job and paying someone to dig a hole and fill it in in the eyes of the federal government. How could there be? Can you keep track of 100 million people?

Ah... Government is inefficient. That old bug a boo.

Average HMO - More than 30% of every dollar goes toward administrative expense.

Medicare - Under 3% goes toward administrative expense.

Yes there are problems with government. The solution is to fix them, as opposed to parceling out jobs to the private sector where corporate greed and avarice takes over.

Anyway.... too political. Were going to get slapped down.

My recent experience with loca shops (in houston, not a small town)

Modia - LOL @ no product working and only there to sell old people HT builds - they had no product at all, half the store didnt function
Tweeter - gone - I used to buy from here when it was home entertainment
Best Buy - only low-fi really, no headphone stock or speakers worth plugging in
Magnolia - see above but add denon and DT, still no headphones

So I googled and came up with 3 custom stores:
None carried headphones or any of the products I was interested in
One is closed 3 days a week, no headphones

If I cant demo and buy product in houston, the local thing is gone. I dont mind paying a little extra for service and getting it right now. Best I can tell local audio shops are dead...I think they were killed by best buy, not the internet.

I bought:
Used Littledot MArk iii
New denon 5000, had modded
craptons of tweaks and cables
a pair of studio monitors
a used center channel as mine was dying

I would have bought ALL of this local - its just not there. All was bought used via ebay/agon/headfi or internet direct.

BEWARE VIRUS

I picked up some kind of virus by following the links here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW the second link makes it clear that many people have had to pay out-of-court settlements of a few thousand dollars each time. What apparently hasn't happened is a successful verdict for RIAA on a case which has gone to a jury. It doesn't count the number of out-of-court settlements or non-jury trials, i.e. by judge alone.

That is not unheard of in court. Most people will pay up if they think there is a strong case against them and it will cost more to go to trial, where even if you win, you may still lose by having to pay your attorney.