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The iPod's line out is inferior?!?!

post #1 of 26
11/13/08 at 7:15am
Thread Starter 
I've been here for a long time and the conventional wisdom is that the line out on an iPod is better sounding because it bypassed the headphone jack. I just discovered this thread at AVS forum and this guy yuriv did measurements which show the iPod's line out dock to have WORSE specs (higher distortion, worse dynamics, etc.) than the headphone jack. His finding start around 8 post down from the top, when he measures using two different cables (Monster and Nyko). Can someone explain to me why he must be wrong, or that we haven't all been wrong here?!

How good is the ipod's DAC? - AVS Forum
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post #2 of 26
11/13/08 at 7:48am
No, he found that the Universal Dock has more distortion, not the iPod's line out.
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post #3 of 26
11/13/08 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
No, he found that the Universal Dock has more distortion, not the iPod's line out.
If I remember right, the Universal Dock uses the "headphone out" part of the docking port, not the line out, as the volume is remote controllable?
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post #4 of 26
11/13/08 at 8:09am
Thats right he was talking about the Universal dock. Though the ipods lineout is exactly the same as its headphone out minus that its not volume controlled. I cannot stress this enough. Theoretically its 100% possible to get the same signal from the headphone out as the lineout.

I also want to take this moment discuss the interconnects. THEY DO NOTHING FOR THE SQ! A cheap -$1 cable is good enough as a diamond/ruby plated platinum wired audio cable isolated with gold infused carbon nanotubes. Its all in your head. You only upgrade the cable for a lower profile, flexibility or more durability.
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post #5 of 26
11/13/08 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by montell View Post

I also want to take this moment discuss the interconnects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by montell View Post
THEY DO NOTHING FOR THE SQ!
Well, that's not a dicussion. It's you own idea.
Anyway, this has been talked thousands here (millions elsewhere) about the effect of cable. And of course, the result is unchanged; some keep bashing it, and some keep paying $$$ for new cables.
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post #6 of 26
11/13/08 at 10:50am
Yea I would think the doc would be the most problmatic.
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post #7 of 26
11/13/08 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by montell View Post
Thats right he was talking about the Universal dock. Though the ipods lineout is exactly the same as its headphone out minus that its not volume controlled. I cannot stress this enough. Theoretically its 100% possible to get the same signal from the headphone out as the lineout.

I also want to take this moment discuss the interconnects. THEY DO NOTHING FOR THE SQ! A cheap -$1 cable is good enough as a diamond/ruby plated platinum wired audio cable isolated with gold infused carbon nanotubes. Its all in your head. You only upgrade the cable for a lower profile, flexibility or more durability.
While using the universal dock may not be any improvement, listening to the iPod 5.5g via HP out compared to line out with a decent quality line out cable is a very different experience. My ears tell me so. I can't speak for the iPod universal dock and a mini to mini cable, since I never owned one. But using a good quality (not crazy expensive, but good) line out IC and a decent amp sounds muchh better in my comparison listening. Not even close.

Just wanted to add my experience to anyone considering a line out alternative to the HP out. Don't get the universal dock, but get a good line out cable instead, because it does sound significantly better, and it's not just the "halo" effect. The sound quality is much better based on real listening.
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post #8 of 26
11/13/08 at 12:21pm
The Universal Dock is not a true line-out. So no wonder he found it inferior...
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post #9 of 26
11/13/08 at 1:56pm
X2. But I think many people are fooled into thinking otherwise, based on the idea that it's a dock, so it must be line out. Same with the Zune dock. I have one of those too, use it with my home stereo, and it sounds pretty good. But it's also not a true line out, as the volume control remains functional when plugged into the dock. Different for the Sansa e270 dock that is part of a small sound system I bought. When the Sansa is plugged into that dock, the volume control is rendered useless, and it sounds much better than when using HP out with a mini to mini cable (tested the difference, since the little sound system offers an aux mini plug for other MP3 players).
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post #10 of 26
11/13/08 at 3:02pm
Thread Starter 
No, I don't think he's talking about the Apple dock. You can't use the Monster Cable or Nyko cable with an Apple dock, they employ the iPod's bottom connector. I'm positive he's measuring the headphone out jack against 2 different line out connnectors. I also find it weird, as i find my line out to be a bit darker or smoother with more bass response. I hope I'm not hear the placebo effect. But perhaps this other poster's comment explains it "The 5G and newer iPods, when directly connected to a good integrated stereo amplifier, is damn close if not the equal of a good DAC or CDP. iPods tend to lose performance when connected to low impedance earphones, especially in the bass." Maybe that's why I hear a difference.

By the way, I was wrong about distortion. He actually measures .001 percent less distortion with the line out. It is in dynamics, CROSSTALK, signal to noise ratio that suffers.

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison
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post #11 of 26
11/13/08 at 4:32pm
Just a question. When I connect my line out cable (DIY made by a fellow Head-Fier) the volume control is rendered useless. I had always believed that when that happens, it means you are actually using a true line out. With the Zune dock, as I said, the volume still works, as is the case with any other DAPs HP out (Sony A818, Sansa Clip), of course.

Oh well. All that matters to me is that the LOD cable smooths out the sound, making it appreciably better to my ears than the HP out - when using the same amp (and a mini to mini cable with the HP out setup). Maybe I will go back and revisit, do another sound comparison, to check. On the other hand, nah.
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post #12 of 26
11/13/08 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
Maybe I will go back and revisit, do another sound comparison, to check. On the other hand, nah.
I'm of the same opinion, actually. I just bought a dedicated LOD/cable and I'm not sweating .001 more distortion. Plus, I use these cables to plug them into my home rig, when I like a steady, set line-out volume.
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post #13 of 26
11/17/08 at 1:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by montell View Post
Thats right he was talking about the Universal dock. Though the ipods lineout is exactly the same as its headphone out minus that its not volume controlled. I cannot stress this enough. Theoretically its 100% possible to get the same signal from the headphone out as the lineout.

I also want to take this moment discuss the interconnects. THEY DO NOTHING FOR THE SQ! A cheap -$1 cable is good enough as a diamond/ruby plated platinum wired audio cable isolated with gold infused carbon nanotubes. Its all in your head. You only upgrade the cable for a lower profile, flexibility or more durability.
LOL - well said!

Electrons are pretty 'low maintenance' - they don't care all that much what type of metal they travel through. Jumping between electron shells in neighboring atoms probably feels about the same whether it's copper or gold!
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post #14 of 26
11/17/08 at 2:19am
I really don't har much of a difference between phone out and LOD sound from any of my iPods. Sorry.
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post #15 of 26
11/17/08 at 2:23am
Well said? It's really opinion only, nothing more. I hear a difference between HP out/cheap mini to mini cable and higher-quality LOD cable with the iPods (both 5.5g and Touch) I own. So I have a different opinion. I love it when someone makes a definitive statement, when no such definitive situation really exists. Nothing really well said at all. Just another opinion. This place is loaded with them. Problem is, some believe they are fact.
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