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DIY cables - A Variation On a Theme

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html

instead of Silver Wire, I used Magnetic Oxide Coated Copper wires.

Parts Need:

A silm tube glass bottle
Isoprophil Alcohol ($1.50)
Acetone ($1.50)
Home Depot 13.7m x 3.2mm cotton rope ($1.50)
Home Depot 1/4" Polyethylene tubing (white Icemaker) $1.50
Radio Shack Magnetic Wire ($5.00 for 3 guages)
1/8" inch clothes wire hanger. free.
lit candle.

cut the 2 lengths of wire cotton needed. dip cotton ends into candle wax. form ends with fingers (otherwise it will "poof" up). let dry.

clean the glass dropper bottle and with alcohol (unless it was bought empty). let dry.

cut dropper bottle bulb (top).

fill bottle with acetone to 1".

wrap wires around rope. lightly hold with shrink tube.

insert rope into tube. (do not let cotton come into contact with the acetone). let stand 1 minute. lightly scrape wire ends with exacto knife. repeat as necessary. (use the acetone to soften the enamel). *** after awhile you should be able to use just your fingers to remove the enamle. ***

(tape small piece of wire over the heat shrink and tape. tape the other end of the 2" wire to the hanger. pull hanger through tube.
pull the two wires & cotton through the 1/4" tubing.

solder wires as usual.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
if not using rope, and you want to wrap around the outside of the polypropleyne, insert tube into RCA plug (screw on the barrel), and position as necessary. mark outside with a CD marker pen (so that when finished the wires don't go into the barrel). poke a pin though the middle of the tube a little higher than the mark (make sure it goes through the other side of the tube). remove pin. insert a long piece of wire through the two holes until they are equal lengths on both sides of the hole. from the opposite end insert the coat hanger. push the rod through so that it pushes the wire through. you should have about 1.5" of wire protruding. tape the wire to the coat hanger and the tube. [now would be a good time to heat shrink over the hole if you are not using teflon tape.]

wrap around one wire lead until you get to the other side. temporarily tape down. repeat with the other end. tape down. cut 1/4" shrink tube. position over the two holes (nearest the coat hanger side you pushed in, ot which has the 'loop') and heat. untape the coat hanger (on the end you just shrank the shrink tube). cut wire in the very middle. you now have two loose wires.

untape one wire (from the other end - non-shrinked tube end). pull the coat hanger past the small holes. push one wire through a hole. when it gets to the inner wall - stop. lightly push the coat hanger bcak through. work the wire into the hole while pushing with the hanger so that the wire comes out the end. temporarily tape this wire (after the two small holes).

pull/push the coat hanger back into the tube past the two holes. remove the second wire tape. push the wire end into the second hole. when it gets to the other inner hole - stop. push the wire hanger so that it pushes the wire out. pull both wires tightly. adjust for twist finish. hold both wires and shrink 1/4" shrink tube so that it covers both little holes. heat shrink tube.

plug both ends with cotton. i used 1" of the rope.

cut one end a little longer than necessary for a perfect fit into the RCA plug. immerse inside acetone bottle. wait a minute. scrape with exacto knife. repeat as necessary. when both wires are scraped, adjust final fit by cutting off a bit of the wire ends and solder into plug. tighten.

insert opposite plug end (RCA cap. you gotta put it in before you solder the last end). scrape one wire end. test for continuity to ground at RCA plug. (identifying wires). cut the ground wire just a little bit shorter than the signal lead.

immerse in acetone, scrape, repeat. solder. check for shorts when completly finished.
post #2 of 23
Hey Walli,

Have you built a pair yet?? If so, how does it sound? What would be a comparable cable and price range of sound you get from this one.

And congrats on yet another DIY project to share with the rest of us. You and gerG have really helped to open this genre of things up for the rest here. Great job!
post #3 of 23
If you want more flexability, you can use 1/4" Polypropylene Solid Braided Rope instead of Polypropylene tubing. You can find it at your local Ace Hardware or online from http://www.mcmaster.com/

I found out about using braided rope from this old thread:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...s&pagenumber=1

However, not having to use nylon tape is appealing!
post #4 of 23
Quote:
Magenetic Oxide
?? Magnesium? Magnitized wire?
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
itza2mer,

thanks for the link. it's a bevy of information.

I'm trying to decide if I want to use Teflon. if someone tells me that it can shield rf, then i have to assume that the Teflon tape is also restraining the dynamics, or as John says in his article, Teflon introduces a sound all it's own.
post #6 of 23
Wallijonn,

The more I think about your DIY cable variation, the more I like it! It's cheap, you can find everything you need within driving distance, and the cable is durable! The acetone cleaning method you developed is very clever!

On ebay I've found 2 good resources if you ever need a lot of rope or wish to experiment with silver wire, and both are cheap!

1- For rope (cotton, Polypropylene, etc..) at: http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=9908648
Not a steal, but he has some oddball sizes that are hard to find.

2- For .999 Pure Silver Wire (uncoated): http://www.stores.ebay.com/1starsilv...l?col=2&dir=-1
Shipping was only $1.50 (for all 3 rolls), I bought 3 rolls of 50 foot wire (26,28,30 gauge) for $21.

I can't find the link at the moment that suggested this approach, but instead of buying thin tubing to insulate the silver, I'll spray a total of 7 thin coats of Polyurethane on the silver to help protect and insulate it.

I'm planning to build DIY cables for my CD3000 using the silver wire (To help keep the bass presence intact, I'll use the thicker 26 guage).

I remember reading about a few CD3000 mods you were throwing out recently that I'm thinking about trying out. One of my drivers shorted out, and I was going to part it out, however thanks to Head-Fi, I found someone willing to sell me a driver (thanks ablaze!) As much as I love the CD3000, I do feel there is plenty of room for improvement. I wish I had access to photos of a dismantled R-10. I would love to incorporate some R-10 features into a CD3000.
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by itza2mer
I'm planning to build DIY cables for my CD3000 using the silver wire (To help keep the bass presence intact, I'll use the thicker 26 guage).
PLEASE have a go at this and post some photos along with it. I for one would love to see what a difference it makes to swap out the cheap cabling and such and replace it with something decent.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by ServinginEcuador
PLEASE have a go at this and post some photos along with it. I for one would love to see what a difference it makes to swap out the cheap cabling and such and replace it with something decent.
ServinginEcuador,

The real crime is that Sony charges $177.24 for a CD3000 replacement cable with very little insulation, and no cable shielding.

I'm planing to y-split my DIY cable. The tiny wire that runs thru the headphone from the the left driver to the right driver is too fragile. Also, if my cable ends up being a real stinker when it's all said and done, I can always cave in and buy a used 580/600 Cardas cable, and install it without too much effort.
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
itza2mer,

i was thinking of doing the same with my Grados.

for awhile I was thinking of using a Radio Shack RCA cable and removing the inner core and wire. but then I thought about the di-electric effect and was thinking of just doing the rope trick. for some reason I want to put candle wax over the outside before putting into the cable sleeve. it would be just as easy to use teflon tape, though.

when it comes to silver, it may be too bright (but supposedly gives better transients). cooper is supposed to be darker sounding. so I was thinking of using silver wire for the signal and magnetic oxide coated copper for the ground.

my Mogami Quad cable is good for about 20 pf/ft. the cable above (magnetic oxide coated copper) is supposedly about 4 pf/ft, so it should give better transients and better transparency. most mic cable is good for about 50 pf/ft. the difference will be in the resistance, as MOCC is about .4 ohms /ft.

so, is there any way to use the existing cable core? it certaintly is long enough. and if you use the 30 guage wire (Radio Shack red) you should be able to get 4 wires through).

i can see where making a rig with a handle at the end ... pull the cotton rope through (which has 4 wires taped down on one end), turn the handle (which holds 4 wires at 4 compass points) and instant twist. hmmm.

regarding the silver wire on Ebay - "half tempered"? sounds like there's nickel coating on it. I'd just as soon buy from John Risch's contact or go to a NYC jewelry shop.

Now I'm wondering if I should not have used the Neutrik RCA plugs with the retractable ground leads... Guess I'll make another set without the retractable ground shield.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by itza2mer
ServinginEcuador,

The real crime is that Sony charges $177.24 for a CD3000 replacement cable with very little insulation, and no cable shielding.
And people complain that the Equinox costs $190 for a 9ft cable. Sheesh, I would take an Equinox for the CD3K over that stock job any day.

Thanks for pioineering this cause on behalf of all us CD3K owners. We're right there with ya man. Just let us know how it goes and what you think when it is all said and done. I doubt it could get any worse with the tiny wires they use, so go for it!
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Doug,

"What do they sound like?"

ICs are a bitch to listen to. But right off the bat I would say that they removed a lot of sibilance, they're darker and more musical. They definitely are not as bright as my Belden 89207s. I actually feel the bass now on the DT880s, where before it was a little muddy. (Listening to Mariah Carey's "There's Got to Be A Way"). There seems to be more slam. But this is from memory. I just never thought about it before. Now it seems to be a revelation. So, yes, I would say that it helps the bass, and it seems to definitely have more "slam". The midrange seems a little more airey, but at the same time a little more bloated down the line. I'll have to hear quite a few more CDs. I'm hoping that they burn in better.

The idea of removing them (the cables), to compare, does not appeal to me. The way I described the build is the right way to do it. there is absolutely no strain on the wires (other than slack). The barrell does not touch any of the wires. And the cotton at the tube ends ensures that the wires won't touch and short out. I think I did a nice job.

I do not like the Neutrik ProFi plugs. I had to insert the cable ground first by holding onto it firmly, then pushing it into the housing of the RCA jack. It's a tighter fit. I think I will stick to my other RCA plugs (Homegrown Golden Standards) (http://www.homegrownaudio.com/diy_rca.html) for my next cable.

I gave up trying to make the 22 guage rope cable. the wire is way too thick. so I made a tube cable using the 30 guage wire.

I will definitely be making a rope cable using the 30 guage, next. And I may still make some with silver. But, as I said above, I want to make it a silver wire signal and a MOCC ground. (or a silver wire ground with MOCC signal wire - since the ground will be 'faster' than with copper).

I just figure that if silver is fast / bright and copper is slow / dark, (relatively speaking), putting the two together should give me a nice neutral, fast, "slamming" sound.

if i use silver (for the sugnal wire), the signal will 'probably' get there fast and be bottled up at the driver end ground, perhaps causing time smear.

Man, the more I listen to it - the better it sounds! there's now bass and slam. everything is opening up, nicely.

yeah, I think I like these cables.

the trick will be in trying different plugs and choosing ones that have the slowest amount of capacitance decay between the signal lead at one end and the ground at the other end. It would be interesting to see what value it settles on. (I noticed this propensity when I finished my K401 cable. The K501 cable was slower in capacitance subtraction / addition on the ohmmeter). That's right - the plug itself has capacitance.

it cost me about $10 a cable to get the "Grado slam" into the DT880s (which are heavily modified).

Highly recommended.
post #12 of 23
Man, thanks for the update and listening test info Walli. As usual, you guys pioneering these thing are really cutting down the weeds and thickets so us DIY challenged weenies can follow an easier path. From the sounds of it you got a real winenr on your hands. If your still looking for work why not mod peoples cans for them, or make ICs and sell them here. Might be worthwhile since you seem to like it. I bet those things would bring a good $50-100 if they sound as good as you claim. (Not doubting that they sound as good as you claim, just for example.) You are good at doing these types of things, maybe a living can be made at it???? You definitely have a knack for tinkering and coming up with some pretty innovative ideas.......


If I keep my Sony CD3Ks I would definitely be interested in having the cord modded if the sound improves on them.

After I replied to a few of your threads I started thinking you had me on your ignore list since I asked some questions and didn't get an answer.
post #13 of 23
Walli,
No pics of your work?

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Doug,

now why would I put you on an ignore list? no way, man. i only put children on my list. i have no problems with anyone who makes me think, who can present their case in a professional manner.

I do not think that I could make a living off of it. That is something that is reserved for JMT, Orpheus, etc. And if you read the magnetic cable thread, they seem to be inexpensive enough. It will be interesting to see what the rest of the guys say about those cables. I used the Radio Shack MOCC wire because it is right down the street, otherwise I would have problably gone out of my way to get teflon coated tubing for the 30 guage wire, the cloth outer cover (which it makes it look like you're getting something substantial when all it really is is candy coating) and teflon tape. I'm a minimalist. guess my prices should reflect that (if I decide to go that way).

In the case of MOCC headphone cables I will have to resort to cotton inside their original rubber casing. I might as well start on the K501 cable as it will be the easiest to do (hardest to wrap 4 small wires onto 1/8" cloth). I think I will end up just buying some sleeving, instead. when you are using 1/8" cord, and you have 4 wires coming out one end... hairy. can it be done? I'll soon find out. I know that I am going to have to shrink wrap one end and then roll. the spacing will have to be about 4" per turn. I used about 1.5" on my ICs.

Sol,

no, I do not have a digital camera. last time I had to cajole gerG into coming over so that I could use his digital camera. i doubt that he would make a second trip.

what I may end up doing is making another pair of MOCCC's and having gerG burn them in and then do a comparison to his other cables.

what does it look like?

imagine 2 Neutrik ProFi end connectors:

with 1 foot of translucent 1/4" tubing between them with 1/4" of heat shrink over the holes on both ends where both wires go into the tube at the plug end and 2 red wires spiralling between the two RCA plugs. it's really unimpressive. especially if you compare to the ones the afforementioned guys make.

When it comes to cables, Greg (gerG) says that a cable should not introduce anything into it (the signal). he uses a tape in/out loop to test. I, of course, say that such a loop is bound to add compression, but that's another matter...

Dixie Chicks' "Little Ol' Cowgirl" CD never sounded better. I definitely like "Crystal Clear Sound" recording studio recordings.

So, Doug...

when is your birthday? maybe I'll make a set and present them to you as a present. then you can tell these guys if it's all bull. silver wires are extra. let's see, I already paid for about 100' of 30 guage wire, I've got about 23' of the polyethelyene tubing, 1/2" of heat shrink is nothing, and I paid $7 for the interconnects... maybe I'll make up a set, have Greg check them out and then have him send them out to you. how's that? what length would you like them?

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=37431

did you see what Bragraman did with his HD497's? man, I'm proud of that guy.
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by wallijonn
So, Doug...

when is your birthday? maybe I'll make a set and present them to you as a present. then you can tell these guys if it's all bull. silver wires are extra. let's see, I already paid for about 100' of 30 guage wire, I've got about 23' of the polyethelyene tubing, 1/2" of heat shrink is nothing, and I paid $7 for the interconnects... maybe I'll make up a set, have Greg check them out and then have him send them out to you. how's that? what length would you like them?
Walli,

The b-day was May 22nd, but I'll forgive for the missed b-day if you send me the pair in question. Seriously, I'd be honored to grace my system with a pair of your ICs. .5-1m would be fine since the amp will be placed on a plastic monitor shelf I bought for the wife but she didn't want. Since the amp is literally right on top of the CDP a half meter run would fit easily. I am currently using a 1.5m run and it is all curled up around the back right hand corner of the CDP before entering the Creek. At the rate things are going on getting stuff to me it'll probably make it just in time for my next birthday, but I wouldn't complain. I'd have my very own WalliJohn original IC in my possession. Proudly in my possession.


I did see Bangraman's HD497 dissection. He's a madman, but a genius madman, that I'll grant him. You gotta love the adventurous spirit that has invaded the headphone world. Maybe I should say finally invaded the headphone world.
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