Does the Apple Universal Dock have a true Line Out? - Page 2

Actually,

The full volume output of the universal dock is ~6 or more dB quieter than the full volume output of the headphone jack, eq, volume limiter, and soundcheck off, as measured by the inputs on my 0404 USB.

So, it isn't just a rerouted headphone signal, whatever its other faults.

Also, at least for the iphone 3G, the phone keeps track of separate volumes for the dock, headphones with Shure mic adapter, and headphones without MPA, and the dock is unaffected by the volume limiter setting.

Only thing I know is when I use the high-quality LOD cable I bought from a DIY head-fier, both the iPod 5.5g AND the iPod Touch 2G sound much better (smoother, fuller bodied, a much more ear-pleasing sound sig). Not sure about all the technical stuff flying around, but an apples to apples sound comparison (same track) results in significantly better sound quality using the LOD with the MiniboxE+, vs. just just the HP out and the MB amp with a mini to mini cable. That being the case, I guess to me it matters little to me how that happens, just that it does.

There was a thread that has pictures of the universal dock dismantled a while back. There is lots of circuitry inside, so who knows what it's doing to the signal. I'd just use a LOD.

Not quite. The Universal Dock does bypass the iPod's noisy internal headphone out circuitry (remember, the dock connector is in no way directly connected to the internal headphone amplifier) - but then it futzes with the sound by adding its very own audio op-amp circuitry to that unamped line out. (I have a feeling that Apple's previous iPod dock, for the 20GB/40GB 4G iPod, had an op-amped output as well.)

Thus, I stand by what I said in my first post in this thread:
"One buys the Universal Dock for convenience, not performance."

I see! Then I stand corrected...
Either way, its not a clean line-out.

Hi . i have been reading a lot on this subject cause i wanted to know if the universal dock has a real line out . first of all i got ipod classic 6g (or 6.5?...the newest gen in short. 120 gb) and purchased the universal dock(also the newest model) after i tested it in an apple store in my country, to see if the ipod's volume control influences the dock output.
to my surprise, after all the comments i heard on this thread and other threads, the volume on the ipod didnt influenced the dock volume.
so its a line out in a sense that the signal dont go through the ipod's internal amplifier, but...its not a real line out in a sense that the signal is walking through another audio issues inside the dock itself. (its still got a remote that can reduce the volume output). but i think that this volume control by the remote is not exactly "amplify" the signal,its kind of a pre-amp i guess or op-amp.
but all of you right that said that this is not a "true" line out since the signal is not as clean as a real lod cable which i also got (the sik ram din) and the sound is just perfect using my headroom ultra micro amp.
i didnt try connecting the universal -dock to the amp but i will sometime, just to see the different in sound.

any way...for conclusion, the ipod's volume is controlling the docking station output volume only in a few ipod models, and i think it also depend in the firmware. my ipod 120 gb with the latest firmware is going great with the universal dock if anyone wanted to know.

Thanks for your findings. I have known most of this - and I do agree with the majority opinion that the Apple Universal Dock's "line out" is not a clean line out due to the audio-futzing circuits inside the dock itself.

However, the iPod's volume control does not always control the volume output of the Universal Dock's "line out" (as you said, since it depends on the iPod model, generation and firmware). And with my 4G Nano, I could definitely see the volume control settings on its LCD screen whenever I use the remote to control the output from the Universal Dock. (The remote volume control does work with most if not all compatible iPods, but on some models you will not be able to see the volume settings at all.)

plonter. Interesting.
Then either the Universal Dock come in different versions, or it acts differently to different iPod's. Cause my Universal Dock (from 2007 sometime) have its volume controlled by both my 1G iPod nano and my 5G iPod.

Here is the weird thing about the apple universal dac that I have.

Another dac chip inside.

thanks for the replies and thanks for the nice picture jadeast.
the universal dock is very comfortable and useable,and if it only had a true
line level output it would be perfect. but i guess you cant have it all...

for now i am using the sik ram din lod cable for music listening and the dock for charging and syncing the ipod.

is it possible to use a normal lineout dock with the universal dock so that you can maintain remote control and gain llineout??

ok just bought a universal dock.

what can i say.... sound quality sucks.

i put in my lod, and even then, output is still variable so it's a no go. also, the lod must be iphone/touch compatible otherwise it doesnt work at all.

so i can now say that the dock connector on the universal dock is NOT a direct pass through.

.... remote works well though....

I just bought an used ALO Bamboo Dock, will post my impressions.

I wanted to point out a discovery I made on this subject.

 

 

The current Universal Dock today... I don't know anything about it.

 

The Universal Dock that came out around the 2G Nano and 5.5 Classic days... does not have lineout and has its own DAC and Amp apparently.

 

The Universal Dock that came with the iPhone 2G Classic -- as in the one you find in the box with the iPhone 2G -- has a true lineout. It's a smaller version of the universal dock, and doesn't have a remote control. 

 

This is the one I am talking about:

 

 

I still have this, glad I kept it when I sold my original iPhone years ago. I had it in storage but brought it out for kicks. And I am finding out that it sounds better than the Crosswinds LOD that I got with my GoVibe Petite. I am not sure why. But it does. And it is true line out -- you can't control volume when an iPod is attached to it, and EQ is rendered useless (same as with the Crosswinds LOD). 

 

Does the component quality affect the sound between LODs? Because this one definitely sounds better than my Crosswinds LOD or my silver DIY LOD.