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Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings - Page 209

post #3121 of 3686
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
Chailly: it may be the best recorded set, but to be the performances are too plush and soft. The heat needs to be turned up higher. I do like his #5 and #7 and #10 quite a bit. But the 2nd misses a lot. There is no denying the quality of the playing -- superb all the way.

DA: You have three versions! Cooke I (Ormandy), Cooke II (Rattle) and then the Barshai version. I have to give the nod to Rattle-Berlin. It makes a great impact. But I also like the Sanderling and Morris recordings also, both use Cooke II.
Well I have M8 & M5 by Chailly which I like alot but agree with MB that his M2 was not very good, just not enough dramatic impact. I was considering M9 but long timings at almost 90 minutes would probably not agree with me so have not purchased.
post #3122 of 3686
My favorite Mahler symphonies are constantly changing but I'm going to put up a list of my ranking order......and I'll probably change the list once every week, just as a discussion starter...

Favorite is:
1. 9
2. 4
3. Das Lied von der Erde
4. 6
5. 3
6. 2
7. 5
8. 7
9. 1
10. 8
11. 10
post #3123 of 3686
Re the Mahler 6 andante/scherzo debate; The Kaplan Foundation has published a paper, with comment by Reinhold Kubik of the Gustav Mahler Society, called "The Correct Movement Order in Mahler's Sixth Symphony", which makes a case that I think is unarguable, that Erwin Ratz basically perpetrated a fraud by including his "authentic" order in the Critical Edition. However, I can understand that if one has listened to this version all one's life, anything else will sound very "wrong"!

Get the complete PDF at:
http://mahlerarchives.net/archives/symp6.html


Mahler 10 - I have:

Rattle (Cooke III)
For performance and sound the Rattle is the best, although there are sound issues which have been discussed elsewhere. It's the most intense performance, though it feels a little mono-emotional.

Sanderling (Cooke II)
Sanderling is similar, being Cooke as well (and Rattle apparently studied Sanderling's version), but a broader, gentler approach, almost a pastoral feeling at times. The recording and orchestra can't match the high standard of the Rattle.

Olson (Wheeler)
Olson on Naxos is pretty well recorded and played but lacks conviction - I haven't heard it for a while but don't recall it sounding vastly different to Cooke. Apparently Wheeler is closer to the original sketches, so another recording with stronger interpretation would be a good thing.

Barshai (Barshai)
I'm not really a fan of "dry as dust" Barshai, but this might appeal to listeners looking for a more straight-ahead, clinical approach. I haven't listened to this in a while either, but recall some interesting added percussion in the 4th movement.



Guess what I'll be listening to tonight!
post #3124 of 3686
I think Chailly's 5 is excellent, his 9 is quite good, and his 10 is good. His 1, 4, 6 and 7 are okay, but I also find them too laid back. Have not heard 2, 3 and 8.

As for the great M6 Scherzo-Andante debate, I think it is worth regularly performing it both ways because of the different slant it puts on things. Psychologically, I find the Andante 3rd more satisfying because of the sense of escape that it gives, after the double-whammy buffetting by the first movement and the scherzo. Also, it depends on one's concept of the great upwelling at the end of the first movement. Is it triumph? Is it heaven? Rattle has said that he likes the Andante second because you reach heaven at the end of the first movement, so you might as well stay there for a while. But I happen to think that coda is anything but heavenly. I think Bernstein got it right by playing it fast and furious, as a huge gesture of defiance, knocked sideways by the ensuing scherzo.

M
post #3125 of 3686
Updates:

1. The Klemperer/EMI Das Lied von der Erde arrived this last week. I've listened four times. It is terrific and fully deserving of the label claim of a Recording of the Century. Deeply felt, superbly sung and played. Yes, this is Klemperer and the pacing is a bit slower than the norm, but it doesn't harm the music at all. Very, very beautiful. I'm very sorry I ignored it for so long. Right up there among the best. Maybe even the best?

2. The new Gramophone arrived. THis month features a list of 50 great and overlooked recordings. There's a Mahler: the 7th with Kondrashin on Tahra! Several of us have mentioned how great that recording is. It wasn't just us.

3. The same magazine rips the Zinman M2. So did Hurwitz. But then American Record Guide loved it, and so do many Amazon raters. What's a person to do?
post #3126 of 3686
Thread Starter 
Yes a stellar performance by Klemperer with his DLVDE, my main challanger Kubelik/Audite has been delayed........seller waited 10 days then told me it was not in stock

Another Kubelik has been ordered so the show down has been postponed, but I would not be surprised if Klemperer remains top pick regardless of how many versions are compared to it. I did get the Haitink/Baker/Phillips DLVDE but have not listened yet.

I am a huge Kondrashin fan for Mahler and several of his performances dot my top 5 list, he is a dark horse that most mainstream reviewers ignore or have not explored

Zinman.............we are still in the FOM stage where new recordings are usually too highly praised compared to where they really stand after the passage of some time, I purchased his M1 and was not really encouraged to buy more, seemed very average.
post #3127 of 3686
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
3. The same magazine rips the Zinman M2. So did Hurwitz. But then American Record Guide loved it, and so do many Amazon raters. What's a person to do?
Buy it if you want it, but know that it's well-played and well-conceived, but little more. The 2nd field is very crowded as it is today, and the room for the "solid" recording already has a lot of contenders in there.

The Slatkin set on Telarc and the Rattle CBSO set on EMI probably have more to recommend them if you're just looking for a workhorse M2. Ultimately, if you listen to Zinman, then you should follow the reasoning of the Hurwitzer's advice and chase it with the Solti LSO set on Decca's Originals label.

Zinman isn't bad, but there are lots of better sets.
post #3128 of 3686
Anyone besides me feel that the authoritative Mahler 2nd is the Kaplan with Vienna?
post #3129 of 3686
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
Anyone besides me feel that the authoritative Mahler 2nd is the Kaplan with Vienna?
Authoritative in what sense? It is certainly faithful to the new score, well-played, and carefully crafted. However, there are recordings with somewhat more passion.
post #3130 of 3686
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
Anyone besides me feel that the authoritative Mahler 2nd is the Kaplan with Vienna?
I've heard many Mahler 2nds, but not all of them.

I've yet to hear one I'd describe as "authoritative" or "definitive" - several come close, but I haven't heard one yet that hits on all the points from beginning to end.

I think maybe I know the work *too* well. There are parts of Slatkin's I love, parts of Abaddo's I love, parts of Mehta's I love..

Maybe I'm too picky :-)

-jar
post #3131 of 3686
I've collected a huge number of M2's, and if there is a "definitive" among them, it's the 1970's Vienna Philharmonic with Zubin Mehta on Decca. Everything goes right, nothing is wrong, and it packs a huge emotional wallop. But keep in mind that the thing that led me to this website was sound quality, and there the Mehta isn't quite up to the best of the newer digital recordings. The Zinman might have great sacd sound, but tied to an earthbound reading. The Telarc does have sensational sound, and Slatkin is good Mahler conductor. The Fisher on Channel Classics in glorious sacd is supberb, given a few small interpretive quirks. So it's a tough balance: sound vs performance. And that's why, in the final analysis my #1 recommendation is, and has been for some time, the Blomstedt/San Francisco on Decca. Stunning Red Book sound and a reading of tremendous power and a low price make it a sure-fire winner. Levi/Atlanta on Telarc is similar, and again the sound is stunning. There's little denying that great sound goes a long way in appreciating Mahler.
post #3132 of 3686

re-Mahlerizing my iMod

I have every single version of every Mahler symphony I own on my iMod and it came to my attention that that was just insane considering that that is 533 CDs worth of one man's music....though he may be my GOD Anyway I decided last week to take away all but one recording of each symphony off my iMod. Furthermore I decided the recording of choice would have to be digital because although conductors like Walter, Klemperer and others had a great handle on Mahler's music, I never find myself using the inferior sonics as a reference.

One last thing, to make things more interesting that I would only use one symphony per conductor, this means if used Bernstein for one, I couldn't use him/her for another.

Anyway, after an hour or two of ruling things out, I came up with list for myself....tell me what you think:

Symphony No. 1 - Bernstein with Concertgebouw
Symphony No. 2 - Kaplan with Vienna
Symphony No. 3 - Chailly with the Concertgebouw
Symphony No. 4 - Tilson Thomas with San Francisco
Symphony No. 5 - Gatti with the Royal Philharmonic
Symphony No. 6 - T. Sanderling with St. Petersburg Philharmonic
Symphony No. 7 - Gielen with SWR
Symphony No. 8 - Abbado with Berlin
Das Lied von der Erde - Oue with DeYoung, Villars and Minnesota
Symphony No. 9 - Karajan with Berlin (1982)
Symphony No. 10 - Rattle with Berlin
post #3133 of 3686
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Yes a stellar performance by Klemperer with his DLVDE, my main challanger Kubelik/Audite has been delayed........seller waited 10 days then told me it was not in stock

Another Kubelik has been ordered so the show down has been postponed, but I would not be surprised if Klemperer remains top pick regardless of how many versions are compared to it. I did get the Haitink/Baker/Phillips DLVDE but have not listened yet.
To finish up my DLVDE survey I have the Kubelik/Audite now and listened a couple times. It is a live recording but I could not detect even the faintest crowd noise and the sound quality is excellent, as good as any studio version from that time........but it does not surpass the mighty Klemperer/EMI.

Something is just missing below the surface, a sense of mystery and turmoil that Klemperer magically catches. The singers are also slightly better for Klemperer and seem more emotionally egaged and in tune with Mahler's zen here. So I think I have enough versions for now.........unless MB forces my hand again
post #3134 of 3686
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
Anyway, after an hour or two of ruling things out, I came up with list for myself....tell me what you think:

Symphony No. 1 - Bernstein with Concertgebouw
Symphony No. 2 - Kaplan with Vienna
Symphony No. 3 - Chailly with the Concertgebouw
Symphony No. 4 - Tilson Thomas with San Francisco
Symphony No. 5 - Gatti with the Royal Philharmonic
Symphony No. 6 - T. Sanderling with St. Petersburg Philharmonic
Symphony No. 7 - Gielen with SWR
Symphony No. 8 - Abbado with Berlin
Das Lied von der Erde - Oue with DeYoung, Villars and Minnesota
Symphony No. 9 - Karajan with Berlin (1982)
Symphony No. 10 - Rattle with Berlin
You are killing me with only allowing DDD recordings since 80-90% of my top 5 list is pre digital, but here is my DDD list:

1)Bernstein/DG
2)Litton/Delos
3)Salonen/Sony
4)Inbal/Denon
5)Sinopoli/DG
6)Oue/Fontec
7)Barenboim/Teldec
8)Bertini/EMI
9)Karajan/DG Live
10)Rattle/EMI
post #3135 of 3686
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
You are killing me with only allowing DDD recordings since 80-90% of my top 5 list is pre digital, but here is my DDD list:

1)Bernstein/DG
2)Litton/Delos
3)Salonen/Sony
4)Inbal/Denon
5)Sinopoli/DG
6)Oue/Fontec
7)Barenboim/Teldec
8)Bertini/EMI
9)Karajan/DG Live
10)Rattle/EMI
That Barenboim 7 really is excellent!
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