or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Music › Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings - Page 203

post #3031 of 3714
"Thomas Sanderling on the small Real Sound label with St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra......son of elder Kurt Sanderling with russian orchestra competing with the best ever recorded??? Yes I say.....

This CD is almost impossible to find, and if you did used price would be shocking, still I must do my duty and report a major Mahler performance that must be owned by serious Mahlerites."



This recording is highly coveted by Mahler enthusiasts, thus, the high price and difficulty in finding.

- augustwest
post #3032 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Ok where are the reports on Zinman M2.........I know Bunny et al have surely secured copies, too hard to resisit
I have it, and it's pretty good. It isn't going to replace any of my reference M2 sets, though. I suppose, and this is just me here, that Zinman is competing in a crowded field. It's well-played and well-recorded, but I prefer Fischer of the recent M2 crop. I felt like Fischer's recording had a bit more presence and bite than Zinman.

Of course, I could be way off here, too.
post #3033 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Ok where are the reports on Zinman M2.........I know Bunny et al have surely secured copies, too hard to resisit

Sorry, but I haven't heard enough about it to get me excited. I was saving the money for other, better purchases.

Talking about the M6, I recently was given a copy of MacKerras's M6 that was on the cover of BBC Music Magazine a couple of years ago. (I'm not sure which orchestra is playing, but I believe it's some regional BBC orchestra. It's highly regarded by many, and despite the poor ripped quality (192 kbps mp3) the quality was still apparent. However MacKerras put the Andante second (always a mistake imo) but it's slightly higher powered than the Abbado which is the best comparison. It's not quite as good as the Ivan Fischer M6, the Budapest Festival Orchestra really plays fantastically. Fischer's M6 is probably the best one around with the Andante second, both for interpretation and orchestra play.
post #3034 of 3714
Zander is dec
post #3035 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08 View Post
I have it, and it's pretty good. It isn't going to replace any of my reference M2 sets, though. I suppose, and this is just me here, that Zinman is competing in a crowded field. It's well-played and well-recorded, but I prefer Fischer of the recent M2 crop. I felt like Fischer's recording had a bit more presence and bite than Zinman.

Of course, I could be way off here, too.
Don't be so modest. Your instincts are very good.
post #3036 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears View Post
Don't be so modest. Your instincts are very good.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm probably biased in my M2 preferences. I like either hyper-analytical performances (e.g., Boulez) or on-the-edge, dramatic stuff (e.g., Mehta or Fischer). I think Zinman steers a middle course, and I really don't connect with that interpretative style.
post #3037 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08 View Post
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm probably biased in my M2 preferences. I like either hyper-analytical performances (e.g., Boulez) or on-the-edge, dramatic stuff (e.g., Mehta or Fischer). I think Zinman steers a middle course, and I really don't connect with that interpretative style.
Nothing at all wrong with that! Mahler without drama is like Shakespeare without poetry. It works but it's missing something.
post #3038 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears View Post
Nothing at all wrong with that! Mahler without drama is like Shakespeare without poetry. It works but it's missing something.
I guess, then, that - for me - Zinman is missing that "something." Everything is "right," but it still doesn't feel "right."
post #3039 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears View Post
However MacKerras put the Andante second (always a mistake imo) but it's slightly higher powered than the Abbado which is the best comparison. It's not quite as good as the Ivan Fischer M6, the Budapest Festival Orchestra really plays fantastically. Fischer's M6 is probably the best one around with the Andante second, both for interpretation and orchestra play.
If really you want to get into the andante/scherzo vs. scherzo/andante debate...!

Mahlerfest - Symphony No.6 - Myth and Reality
http://www.mahlerfest.org/mfXVI/notes_myth_reality.htm
post #3040 of 3714
Thread Starter 
Brutal asessment of new Norrington M2 by our old friend DH of classicstoday
M2

I am puzzled why DH gives the sound a score of 8 after saying:
Quote:
Norrington achieves his lifelong ambition of making a modern symphony orchestra engineered according to the latest SACD technology (albeit a bit cavernously) sound like a badly recorded pre-War mono 78rpm disc
You have to admire his utter disdain for this performance, and his direct no punches pulled review........Norrington fans will have a different take on this

I agree with Bunny that PS is vital part of mahler team, keep the comments coming
post #3041 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears View Post
Talking about the M6, I recently was given a copy of MacKerras's M6 that was on the cover of BBC Music Magazine a couple of years ago. (I'm not sure which orchestra is playing, but I believe it's some regional BBC orchestra. It's highly regarded by many, and despite the poor ripped quality (192 kbps mp3) the quality was still apparent. However MacKerras put the Andante second (always a mistake imo) but it's slightly higher powered than the Abbado which is the best comparison. It's not quite as good as the Ivan Fischer M6, the Budapest Festival Orchestra really plays fantastically. Fischer's M6 is probably the best one around with the Andante second, both for interpretation and orchestra play.
It's with BBC Philharmonic, based in Manchester and probably the best BBC orchestra at the present time. Certainly the most consistent.
post #3042 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Brutal asessment of new Norrington M2 by our old friend DH of classicstoday
M2

I am puzzled why DH gives the sound a score of 8 after saying:


You have to admire his utter disdain for this performance, and his direct no punches pulled review........Norrington fans will have a different take on this

I agree with Bunny that PS is vital part of mahler team, keep the comments coming

Thanks indeed.

As to Norrington, a 2/8 does not seem entirely inconsistent with Hurwitz' opinion of him - he usually gets very high or very low marks. I haven't heard the M2, and I don't know if I'll check it out. Not because DH has scared me, but of the Norrington Mahler I've heard, it just sounds weird. The strings sound emaciated; I checked out the Parsifal bits, and I couldn't believe it. There's "no vibrato" and then there's no vibrato; Norrington seems to like the latter.

Fair enough: it's an interpretation. Whether or not it's suited to Mahler (or Wagner or anyone in the "pre-vibrato" days) is another story and ultimately a matter of taste. I don't hate it, but neither will I rush out to collect the Norrington cycle.
post #3043 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeresist View Post
If really you want to get into the andante/scherzo vs. scherzo/andante debate...!

Mahlerfest - Symphony No.6 - Myth and Reality
http://www.mahlerfest.org/mfXVI/notes_myth_reality.htm
I've seen that essay before. Truthfully, I don't consider the historical accuracy or "rightness" of the order of the movements so much as the musical rightness. To my ears, putting the andante 2nd critically weakens the symphony. It loses momentum and the scherzo before the 4th movement greatly diminishes the power of the catastrophic blows. The argument about whether Mahler wish to change the order because of performance issues or because he was superstitious is moot. It's not something we can ever truly know. He was superstitious in the manner of most late 19th century people, so it's possible that he felt that he would be "hexing" himself by putting in that 3rd hammer blow and placing the Scherzo second. Who knows? He may just as well have decided to change the order because he wanted to revert to more classical form -- perhaps a protest against comparisons to Beethoven? You see, we can suggest anything and again, the discussion is moot. His vacillation as to the order of the movements reminds me of the exam taker's dilemma: he has marked a multiple choice answer instinctively without thinking. Later with time left when he reviews his answers, the instinctive first answer has begun to look very wrong to him. We all know from the SAT coaching courses that unless you have suddenly seen something that you overlooked, the first answer is probably the right one, and that statistically you are in worse shape if you alter the answer. Well, Mahler may very well have been like that exam student. Having spent too much time agonizing over the details he lost sight of the grand effects that the movements create. It sounds better with the andante third, so for my ears that's the way it should be. As for the hammer blows, if the final crash of the timpani is done well, you don't need a third whump with that strange hammer needed only for this symphony. Sometimes a sine wave is just a bump in a symphony hall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Brutal asessment of new Norrington M2 by our old friend DH of classicstoday
M2

I am puzzled why DH gives the sound a score of 8 [snip]
Probably because it doesn't sound very good but it's still better than some other recordings he's heard. Sound quality is a very relative judgement.

Quote:
You have to admire his utter disdain for this performance, and his direct no punches pulled review........Norrington fans will have a different take on this
He's still fighting the Vibrato Offensive. I don't doubt that Mahler asked for more vibrato than customary in his period, which actually weakens DH's vibrato argument. I also don't find that a constant use of vibrato works as well with gut strings as with steel strings which sound awful without it. I do know that Heifetz was heavily criticized by both his teacher and his contemporaries for his constant use of vibrato which would suggest that the use of vibrato was a lot less constant than it is nowadays. If we really want something Mahlerian, then why not put back all the portamenti that have been stripped from music. True, portamenti with vibrato can be extremely cloying -- anyone ever hear of Mantovanni?-- but portamenti were an essential part of the Viennese style and I certainly would be interested in hearing at least one Mahler performance where they were used.

Quote:
I agree with Bunny that PS is vital part of mahler team, keep the comments coming
Absolutely! PS, you have got to start posting with the less reticence and more authority. Certainly you can't sound more ridiculous than the Hurwitzer frequently does and usually you sound a lot saner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lwd View Post
It's with BBC Philharmonic, based in Manchester and probably the best BBC orchestra at the present time. Certainly the most consistent.
Thank you! I've been promised a better rip of the symphony from someone who actually has it. Hopefully it will grow in stature as I listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08 View Post
Thanks indeed.

As to Norrington, a 2/8 does not seem entirely inconsistent with Hurwitz' opinion of him - he usually gets very high or very low marks. I haven't heard the M2, and I don't know if I'll check it out. Not because DH has scared me, but of the Norrington Mahler I've heard, it just sounds weird. The strings sound emaciated; I checked out the Parsifal bits, and I couldn't believe it. There's "no vibrato" and then there's no vibrato; Norrington seems to like the latter.

Fair enough: it's an interpretation. Whether or not it's suited to Mahler (or Wagner or anyone in the "pre-vibrato" days) is another story and ultimately a matter of taste. I don't hate it, but neither will I rush out to collect the Norrington cycle.
A friend whom I trust a lot more than Hurwitz has told me that the cycle is very, very, eccentric, and not good. He's advised me to save my pennies for other more worthy purchases. If someone were to send me a copy of it, I'd listen at least once, but I'm not tempted by this even at BMG prices (or non prices). I keep thinking of Norrington's first Beethoven cycle which almost put me off period performance permanently.
post #3044 of 3714
I sort of half-understand Norrington's overall program, but - when you start to figure that a good chunk of Mahler's symphonies were premiered in the 20th century - you start to wonder if Norrington hasn't found his limit. You can only be so historically informed about a period that was only about one hundred years ago. Moreover, with people like Bruno Walter, Otto Klemperer, Willem Mengelberg, and the other people who worked with and performed under Mahler having lived well into the century, we can find out not only what Mahler was like but also how his orchestras played. When there's quite a bit of first-hand documentary evidence, theories become objectively right or wrong really fast.
post #3045 of 3714
Just as a sidepoint - if you're interested in hearing some late romantic repertoire played well on 'original' instruments have a listen to Herreweghe's Bruckner recordings. I still prefer it the old (new!) fashioned way but it's quite nice to listen to for a change. I believe he's recorded Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde but I haven't had a chance to hear that yet.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Music
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Music › Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings