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Mahler Symphonies Favorite Recordings - Page 141

post #2101 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Hi PSmith,

How do you feel about taking the Andante second?

How does the Szell compare to the Boulez? Does Boulez take the repeat? I always thought that they would be very similar because they both were real sticklers for total accuracy of score performance.
I don't have the Szell at all, and I am on vacation, so I don't have my Boulez 6th with me. However, I think that Pierre does indeed take the first movement repeat (in fact, while I could be wrong, I am almost positive that he does). His tempi are characteristically fleet enough that it still fits on one disc. It would be a bit out of character for Boulez to make many cuts, even in the repeats.

As to the Andante coming where it does, I really don't know what to think. Both camps make convincing-enough arguments for their stance. The critical edition seems to argue that the Scherzo comes first, and the editors have their reasons. However, Mahler's own indecision really - as far as I am concerned - throws it all into disarray. If Mahler wasn't sure how he wanted it , then how can we have any idea? Both interpretations sound "right" for various reasons, but for uniformity's sake, I prefer the order in the critical edition.
post #2102 of 3714
PSmith,

I think it's physically impossible to fit it on one cd and take the repeat. Even Oué who uses very fast tempos couldn't take the repeat and fit it on one cd. However, there is a tradition of not taking the repeat, and that includes Bernstein, Mitropoulos, Szell, Walter, and a few others. It's like the order of the middle movements -- no one is exactly sure which order is "more" correct, so they just do what they think sounds better and justify it with arguments later.
post #2103 of 3714
Boulez takes the repeat in the first movement of Mahler's 6th.

For what it's worth, I think the Boulez recording is a lot better than the Szell. Boulez is often a cold fellow, but the M6 is such a stark work that he actually relaxes some, becomes more yielding, more human. There's even rubato in places, and maybe even-- heaven forbid!-- some warmth. But it is still Boulez: Brilliant and lucid like no other account.

m
post #2104 of 3714
Boulez M6:

I- 23:06 (complete with repeat)
II- 12:19
III- 14:47
IV- 29:10

Total time: 79:22

This is very, very close to the upper limit for CD's. From what I understand, they have so many manufacturing flaws near that upper limit, it is often more cost effective to issue two discs for the price of one. If DG had this to do over again now ten years later, I suspect they would take the latter course.

M
post #2105 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
That's it! My copy is on ancient (albeit beautifully packaged with Asian-feel artwork) vinyl.
post #2106 of 3714
Wow! Every time I've made a cd, even with the 80 minute cds the program prompts me to put in a second disc as soon as it's 78 and a some seconds over. That is stretching it to the outer limit!

As to future releases, I'll bet that the new technology will have such a large capacity that they will probably put another symphony (maybe the 4th?) on the same disc. hehe.
post #2107 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08
As to the Andante coming where it does, I really don't know what to think. Both camps make convincing-enough arguments for their stance. The critical edition seems to argue that the Scherzo comes first, and the editors have their reasons. However, Mahler's own indecision really - as far as I am concerned - throws it all into disarray. If Mahler wasn't sure how he wanted it , then how can we have any idea? Both interpretations sound "right" for various reasons, but for uniformity's sake, I prefer the order in the critical edition.
IIRC Kaplan and others feel strongly that the Adante should come first. Alma wanted the Scherzo first.

I think that overall the scherzo first is best, except for the fact that the beginning of the scherzo sounds like the first movement is just continuing.
post #2108 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from HFR
Boulez M6:

I- 23:06 (complete with repeat)
II- 12:19
III- 14:47
IV- 29:10

Total time: 79:22

This is very, very close to the upper limit for CD's. From what I understand, they have so many manufacturing flaws near that upper limit, it is often more cost effective to issue two discs for the price of one. If DG had this to do over again now ten years later, I suspect they would take the latter course.

M
Hey Mark - Any word on the rest of the Zander set?
post #2109 of 3714
I gave into a bit of impulse buying today, I bought the Bernstein Decca Legends DVLDE on iTunes Music Store today.

Scott
post #2110 of 3714
Mark: Thanks for so generously saving my bacon. I was fairly sure, but that didn't mean someone couldn't talk me off my stance.

The 6th is probably the most nettlesome of his symphonies for all the textual problems. I am gradually warming up to it, but it is still somewhat beyond me. Kent Nagano's 8th is beginning to get me into that work. Solti isn't the most forgiving conductor to the indifferent.

Bunnyears: I think you hit it on the head when you said that most resolve textual difficulties with what seems best, and then worry about justifying it. I think Mahler's problems came from that process, and - had he lived - he might have done it for us. Until such time as I have the opportunity to ask Mahler, I suppose I appreciate the various conductors' efforts to finish his work.
post #2111 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
I gave into a bit of impulse buying today, I bought the Bernstein Decca Legends DVLDE on iTunes Music Store today.

Scott
I cannot imagine too many better impulse buys. That is one of a very few recordings that I can reasonably call "perfect." Everything really seemed to come together on this record.
post #2112 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis
IIRC Kaplan and others feel strongly that the Adante should come first. Alma wanted the Scherzo first.

I think that overall the scherzo first is best, except for the fact that the beginning of the scherzo sounds like the first movement is just continuing.
Not really, the Scherzo has a very strong triple time beat which really distinguishes it from the first movement.
post #2113 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08
Mark: Thanks for so generously saving my bacon. I was fairly sure, but that didn't mean someone couldn't talk me off my stance.

The 6th is probably the most nettlesome of his symphonies for all the textual problems. I am gradually warming up to it, but it is still somewhat beyond me. Kent Nagano's 8th is beginning to get me into that work. Solti isn't the most forgiving conductor to the indifferent.

Bunnyears: I think you hit it on the head when you said that most resolve textual difficulties with what seems best, and then worry about justifying it. I think Mahler's problems came from that process, and - had he lived - he might have done it for us. Until such time as I have the opportunity to ask Mahler, I suppose I appreciate the various conductors' efforts to finish his work.
Remind me to send you my list of questions before you speak to him.
post #2114 of 3714
Ok I now have Symphony No. 2 HYBRID SACD - Slatkin (thanks to PSmith08) and No. 7 Yoel Levi (thanks to Bunnyears). I like No. 7 much more so where should I go from here?
post #2115 of 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Not really, the Scherzo has a very strong triple time beat which really distinguishes it from the first movement.
Depends on how it's handled. Solti really gives it his all in the 1st movement, then charges right into the 2nd, so there isn't as much of a contrast as their should be. What I immediately liked about Tennstedt's performance was that he made more of a contrast between the first two movements.

As for the Andante, I prefer it in the 3rd spot. Pardon my epxression, but it's too big of an emotional release to blow in the 2nd movement position.


-jar
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