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Valab Dac-First Impressions - Page 43

post #631 of 1578
I spoke with Steve Nugent about the possibility of adding transformers "in place" of the coupling caps on the Valab Dac. He didn't think it would be a good idea, something about the Dac chips becoming unstable in this configuration. He suggested adding them after the coupling caps which will provide galvanic isolation and proper impedance matching to a larger audience of pre/amps. With a Dac this simple he feels a lot of sonic differences are being created by impedance mismatches.

My thoughts are direct coupling transformers “may” work in the “right” system but I won’t be the one risking my Dac.

However it's going to get pretty busy with both Jupiter Caps and Transformers on top of the Valab Dac. Might be able to reach Mars with this much rocket power.
post #632 of 1578

yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Pat are you still going through with the Cinemag Coupling Transformer mod?
Yes, Bill, I am.

Like Phill points out, there are high nickel and straight steel.
It is said the steel is a phat sound while the Hi tends towards 'transparent'. Cool or warm? For me the sound of NOS is phat already so clean and cool is what I will choose. The steel gets it phat sound from it's distortion.

$32 is nicer than $40, which is what I thought they were. Going straight to the transformer is the smarter move. ... but then I will miss that picture of the Jupiters on the hood.

I plan on hooking them at output in place of the hookup wire at the RCAs then down to PCB. Then lift the leg of the cap leaving in place just in case I don't like the transformers. The point is to take the caps out of play. DC will be blocked by the transformer. I am committed and will let you know how it turns out.

I already use Cinemags for a SUT and like the sound of it.

I think I will recap most of the DAC then scrape up the money for the transformers. Maybe we can do a bulk purchase. Phill, can you ask them about that?

Cryo the whole DAC!!! Now your talkin'.
post #633 of 1578
Thread Starter 
Pat, I think a group buy is a good idea if we can get a bit of a break on price. We ought to try out the tranny's in someones Dac first to make sure everything works out and we're not stuck with a bunch of tranny's we can't use. I'd be willing to throw a few bucks in toward a test pair if you want to be the tester. How does that sound, first we can see if there is enough interest by other folks to move forward and start off with a test pair then a group buy.

PS - I'll also talk with the OEM MFR to try and find out if there would be a problem with instability using tranny's as Bill Allen mentioned.

Phill
post #634 of 1578
Finally ariived with coaxial cable this afternoon. Hooked it with my set up and now burning in, sound lovely even none burn in, will going to replace all caps within this week and burn in all together. Also, I turn it on once I connected it to my set up until now for about 10 hrs, just warm, not heat at all. PO and Phil, can I replace all caps in non polar except 3 Rubycon filtering caps?

Thanks
post #635 of 1578
BTW, I got a VDH Optocoupler MKII from my CDP and with digital coaxial to Valab, so I can compare the differs from optical and S/PDIF. Also, that make me a choice to have 2 inputs with the toggle switch, great. Sounds is getting better after 10 hrs burn in, more detail in highs and the soundstage is WOOW, can't wait to see/hear what will happen when fully opne. The sound by now is even bettet than my NOS Job DA96 with about 450-500 hrs! This small box is AMAZING, thanks Phill brings this small metal box here, really unbelievable.
post #636 of 1578
Thread Starter 
Dannie01, the only non-polar caps I know of are the coupling caps, I wouldn't bother changing any of the polarized caps except for maybe the regulator caps, Pat can comment on that change, he changed out those caps with BG's I believe. You could change the coupling caps or just wait and see what happens with the transformer coupling a few of the guys plan on doing, the tranny's make the coupling caps a non issue.

Phill
post #637 of 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubes View Post
Dannie01, the only non-polar caps I know of are the coupling caps, I wouldn't bother changing any of the polarized caps except for maybe the regulator caps, Pat can comment on that change, he changed out those caps with BG's I believe. You could change the coupling caps or just wait and see what happens with the transformer coupling a few of the guys plan on doing, the tranny's make the coupling caps a non issue.

Phill
Phill, thanks for the advice, I think I will change the coupling caps in non polar(is it all 0.47uf in metal case is for coupling?), 2 small film caps in 0.47uf (blue)/ 0.047uf (yelow) with better brand caps like Wima/ Silver Mica or others in the first stage to see what will be changed in sound. For the 3 Rubycon, which brand will be good to be replaced.

Of course I will wait and see what happens with the coupling transformer's mod by some EXPERT here. May be this will be my next step to do something with it.

Thanks,
Danny
post #638 of 1578
Thread Starter 
Dannie01, the coupling caps at a minimum should be around 5.0uf according to Kevin at Valab, I'm not sure what others caps you are talking about. Why not break it in first the way it is to see what it is in sound you want to change.

Phill
post #639 of 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubes View Post
Dannie01, the coupling caps at a minimum should be around 5.0uf according to Kevin at Valab, I'm not sure what others caps you are talking about. Why not break it in first the way it is to see what it is in sound you want to change.

Phill
Phill, there are five metal case caps should be the coupling cap and I found the value marked on the PCB is 0.47uf, Im confusing.

Danny
post #640 of 1578

caps caps caps

Hello All,

Chainging the Regulator caps to BGs made a small improvement in smoothness and drive. Worth the 75cents per.
post #641 of 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
Hello All,

Chainging the Regulator caps to BGs made a small improvement in smoothness and drive. Worth the 75cents per.
Thanks Pat, will change it within this week. Phill, these are the caps I mean.
LL
post #642 of 1578
Thread Starter 
Those are not the coupling caps, you have the new latest dac and I believe the coupling caps are located at the rear of the board by the outputs, they should be 10uf caps. The caps in your attached photo look like the regulator caps, I don't have the same board you have, mine has different caps.

Phill
post #643 of 1578

no worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubes View Post
I'd be willing to throw a few bucks in toward a test pair if you want to be the tester. How does that sound, first we can see if there is enough interest by other folks to move forward and start off with a test pair then a group buy.
Phill
No worries, Phill.
Your post earlier about the cost being only $32 already vurtually dropped the price for me. ;-)

I will get my order in before next week is out and let you know how it turns out.
post #644 of 1578

Ok some more thoughts on installing coupling transformers.

First let’s recap:

Kevin states the Dac requires 200 to 400 ohms of load for I/V (Current to Voltage) conversion. The higher the load resistor the higher the voltage output. To high and you risk the Dac chips becoming unstable.

Now coupling caps: A coupling cap is used to block DC and interface with the input impedance of the pre/amp. If we drop the value to 1uf this will start to roll of bass in "certain systems". Both Kevin and Steve Nugent told me 4.0uf will be sufficient. In "stock form" we have a 10uf Mica cap, this may be "uf" overkill, but sonically it sounds great after break-in. So there! Changing this balance we get into what I will call fiddling with "Quantum Things”. (Ok for the most part these things are electrically explainable but trial an error provides quicker results than even the most perfect scientific modeling). The selection of a coupling cap and I/V resistor are also dependent on the pre/amp load … so depending on your gear, mileage may vary.

And if you think that is interesting…..

Enter the transformer:

First off we still need is to keep the I/V load below 400 ohms. If we add a 600:600 transformer, we are adding 400 ohms to the 600 ohm primary load of the transformer. That puts a 1000 ohm load on the Dac chips. Not good! Now you add in the fact that with transformers the secondary (pre/amp) “will” affect the already sub-optimal primary load of the transformer. Let the problems begin.

With a coupling cap, the load on the Dac chips stays constant (more or less). With the transformer it will change depending on the secondary load. This is the major difference. There are simple formulas to get us in the ball park “if” we know the pre/amp load. Assuming a 50k secondary load, math predicts a 50 ohm I/V resistor with a 50 ohm:50 ohm coupling transformer will keep the load on the Dac chips in their stable zone and not affect frequency response in the 20-20K range. However with transformers we do all this with a tradeoff = loss of output voltage! This may/may not be and issue depending on the pre/amp. We could counter this voltage loss with a 1:5 or 1:10 coupling transformer. These new transformers of course will react even differently with the secondary load. And round and round we go.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for continuing on with trying coupling transformers. However as you can see transformer coupling adds in a whole new can of worms. If we “know” the secondary load and the amount of voltage required than we can ball park the proper transformer? I imagine that a 1:1 50 ohm transformer will work for the majority of us, we simply play with the I/V resistors to dial things in. (If you don’t have the stomach for this kind of thing than I suggest sticking with cap/resistor swapping).

Let the games begin………………………………….

Lots of good info on transformers here: Un title page
Check under the input transformer link. Silk offers an exceptional 1:1 50 ohm transformer for DAC’s. $72 each.
A group purchase may bring this price down substantially.
post #645 of 1578
Oh man all this talk about mods are making me jealous since i cant solder
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