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Leaving portable hifi - it's too silly - Page 61

post #901 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

thanks yeah well maybe look for something in the not too distant future...., but not this exactly. this contains others IP that I dont have the right to sell. Shout outs go to the Twisted Pear Crew for the buffalo II (somewhat modified =P), which is a far more suitable dac for this project than the BIII, opc for 'the wire' bal-bal pcbs, Tom for his help realizing the custom volume control/PSU/IO/Battery monitor PCB (nerve center in other words) and last but not least Chris, the only other person to get one of these, as he helped support this project from back in my conceptual stages, not long now mate if youre reading.

I'll keep my eyes out. Ofcourse I am more interested in it purely for desktop use, it is just because of all the things of yours I have read (mainly in the opamp thread) and the way you think and research, and your methodology that I have so much interest. 

 

a qusp desktop dac/amp. Sounds good to me

post #902 of 935

I agree that qusp's rig is 'transportable', but I think its a long way from the rigs most people would envision when the term 'portable hi-fi' is mentioned in a thread title. Just sayin'  ;)

post #903 of 935
its significantly smaller than the particular rig the OP was talking about.... just sayin tongue.gif in my reading of his first post I dont think he would have had a huge problem had the performance matched the size and outlay. this punches well above its weight.

I know, I used to carry one like that ie. 4 cap vcap OIMP + VCAP teflon dock, lisa III, imod and cables is considerably larger, heavier and more vulnerable. particularly once i've embeded some sort of source or reciever. its also smaller than many transportable devices ive seen you talk of and dare I say higher performance

its the massive long optical cable more than anything that makes it a bit unwieldy at the moment, so i'll have to see about getting a custom one done. the only reason I havent already is i'm not 100% set on what the transport will be, the iriver ihp132CF has awesome battery life and is convenient with the tethered remote, but I have a few ideas up my sleeve as well as planning to try the fiio X3

all the same I will be looking to make it smaller if possible, but not at the expense of performance. as you can see, the battery is a dominating factor, so while I may shrink it somewhat by integrating everything together onto1 or 2 PCBs, while battery life has to stay reasonable it cannot go too small. another bonus is it charges in about 35-40mins. we'll see where battery tech takes us over the next 6 months or so. that will be a dominating factor for development time too, because designs like this have to get safety approval, when you pack a battery capable of nearly a gigawatt there are some checks and measures...$$$$$ hopefully red tape doesnt get in the way
Edited by qusp - 11/7/12 at 10:29pm
post #904 of 935

^^ @qusp 

 

k701smile.gif weeeeeeeeee

 

 

sounds exciting

 

could even use its own thread when it gets to a particular stage - not trying to put pressure on you, but this is entertaining.

post #905 of 935
nah there wont be a thread, ive seen how that goes with the armchair experts (I know, ive been one of them). if i'm going to make a go of this i'm doing it my way, I dont want to have to explain everything to the peanut gallery and I dont want to give everything away, because there are a couple of novel ideas that I havent seen done or even talk of it. but we should probably keep on topic in here, I just posted the pics to illustrate that 'portable' doesnt have to mean compromise
Edited by qusp - 11/7/12 at 10:57pm
post #906 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

nah there wont be a thread, ive seen how that goes with the armchair experts (I know, ive been one of them). if i'm going to make a go of this i'm doing it my way, I dont want to have to explain everything to the peanut gallery and I dont want to give everything away, because there are a couple of novel ideas that I havent seen done or even talk of it. but we should probably keep on topic in here, I just posted the pics to illustrate that 'portable' doesnt have to mean compromise

I really respect your decision, I'll just keep my eyes out. 

 

Not to pack on the pressure, but i expect this to be good, technically and musically. 

post #907 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

.......... the armchair experts (I know, ive been one of them)....................... 

I AM one! Nobody listen to me!

 

beyersmile.png

post #908 of 935

1000

 

$200 or so in a space smaller than my car keys for only a little more than your PX-100 plus a new Nano. Ain't havin' portability problems, didn't pay $100+ for the LOD, and genuinely enjoy my lunch breaks more and have fewer "OMFG phone slipped out of pocket FFFFUUUU" moments at the gym. etysmile.gif

 

 

Even as a newcomer to the Hi-Fi world, I agree with a lot of the original post. I think it's ridiculous to spend $100+ on an LOD. I've seen no evidence to convince me that "cryo" treatments will influence sound. I don't understand why a Ray Samuels portable unit can cost as much as or more than a full-sized desktop amp, nor do I understand why the O2 and ODAC cost so many hundreds less than the products they purportedly compete against while being only marginally bigger than the aforementioned Ray Samuels units. I completely agree that much of what is shown in the portable rigs thread is silly both in terms of cost and real world portability.

 

 

With that said... for some people, portable DACs/amps are a very affordable entry to home Hi-Fi. Excluding the O2+ODAC combo, what's the entry fee for a decent external DAC and/or amp? The answer is a whole lot more than an E17, UHA-6S MKII, and similar devices. My E17 is used as an external DAC/amp for my desktop and laptop; I don't feel it was a poorly spent $130 as it's improved my sound experience, has helped me learn about the differences between onboard sound and outsourced sound, and is convenient to bring out and about with my laptop. Granted, my next desktop/laptop step-up will be an O2+ODAC, but that doesn't mean my E17 purchase was poorly chosen. Adding the two together, I'm still significantly less than the cheaper desktop DAC/amps and I have the versatility of a portable device for when my Nano/E6 is charging or if I'm going to be in one place for a while.

post #909 of 935
realizing why the O2 and ODAC are cheap only takes a few minutes of thought. hint, because their development, design, prototyping, testing and support are not part of the cost because they were given away for free (well I expect the bigger resellers are bearing some of this support, particularly since he who shall not be named seems to have been either assassinated, or gotten bored)

it was and is based on a false economy and the fact some people now wonder why others dont cost this much; because they dont think it through, has done the industry a disservice. the only people making money out of the O2/(ODAC is a bit different its production was licensed) are the people repackaging them and adding a significant margin, much more margin than your average audio reseller would make and for simply putting things in boxes and dropshipping... it also takes all art out of the equation, with the only variation possible with the borg rigs being a different faceplate...
/rant
post #910 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

realizing why the O2 and ODAC are cheap only takes a few minutes of thought. hint, because their development, design, prototyping, testing and support are not part of the cost because they were given away for free (well I expect the bigger resellers are bearing some of this support, particularly since he who shall not be named seems to have been either assassinated, or gotten bored)
it was and is based on a false economy and the fact some people now wonder why others dont cost this much; because they dont think it through, has done the industry a disservice. the only people making money out of the O2/(ODAC is a bit different its production was licensed) are the people repackaging them and adding a significant margin, much more margin than your average audio reseller would make and for simply putting things in boxes and dropshipping... it also takes all art out of the equation, with the only variation possible with the borg rigs being a different faceplate...
/rant

It depends where you fall as a consumer, do you want something cheap that works well or do you want something to admire and enjoy, and that includes aesthetics. 

 

My father is very much the former - which is why I haveto remind him looks do matter when repairing or making changes in your home. But myself, having fine arts training, am very much the latter, which is probably why I want the TH900 so badly, its as much an artwork as a tool for musical bliss. 

post #911 of 935

just had my commute listening to Maccas wonderful Chaos and Creation wav via my Hm-601 - GS Voyager - T-50p

 

what a wonderful way to start the day.

 

I don't feel silly at all

post #912 of 935
Honestly, I think there's tremendous amounts of bias involved here.
post #913 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiR3D View Post

It depends where you fall as a consumer, do you want something cheap that works well or do you want something to admire and enjoy, and that includes aesthetics. 

 

My father is very much the former - which is why I haveto remind him looks do matter when repairing or making changes in your home. But myself, having fine arts training, am very much the latter, which is probably why I want the TH900 so badly, its as much an artwork as a tool for musical bliss. 


I'm very much the latter also.

I try to be Conservative, but always fall back to letting my eyes make the final decision.

An example would be... I have a Fiio L9 cable. It's a fine cable and sounds great, but I kept eying one of the nicer, more custom looking(and more money), LODs. I bought one and I love it. It's sounds the same as the Fiio to me, but makes me happier because it looks so good. Also, I bought a BTG Audio Sunrise cable for CIEMs. Will it sound different than the stock cable? Doubt it, but it looks so damn nice...

 

We gravitate towards this site because we love this hobby whether it be for technical reasons or aesthetics and I think most of us, if we had the means, would blow a big chunk of change on a top dog setup. I certainly know I would.

I am Conservative enough that I wouldn't put myself in the red to get it, but I do covet a nice CLAS/ALO setup with all the trimmings...

post #914 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

Honestly, I think there's tremendous amounts of bias involved here.

lol, show me your objective preference meter. common man, youre better than this, have you turned into a drone as well? what does it really matter to you? the poster above enjoys his portable rig, what does he have apart from his subjective bias? what matters more than his subjective response? thats what audio is all about at the 2 cannot be separated
for 3XO technobabble, just in case I was included in the bias comment, but a bit OT (Click to show)
unless I did something really stupid (I cannot measure below my soundcard noise floor) my rig measures better in every way than the O2/ODAC objectively too. the dac and amp separately are superior, not by a small amount, so if you want to play that game ive got it covered.

i'm using the bal-bal 'the wire' for the amp section, its been through the audio precision system 2 and agilent analyzers pretty thoroughly, its part of what I love about it and with far fewer parts than O2. do I need this much DNR, such low THD or stupidly low output impedance? probably not, but you cant play the subjective bias thing with me. in fact i'm using a lower noise psu than that used for the tests, its unlikely to make much/any difference because of the massive PSRR, but again why not? its an overkill rig, i'm perfectly aware of that, but i'm not making any magical claims.

I like to cover both angles, i'm probably more PSU obsessed than is healthy and tweak that area to the max while keeping the analogue sections as simple and high performance as possible, with as few parts as possible to achieve those goals. The Wire fits that ethos rather well and its tiny, so win win.

I decided I would deal with a fair chunk of my battery remaining unused each cycle because I wanted a fully linear dual mono bipolar regulated supply with a real low impedance center tap ground reference, instead of a charge pump or virtual ground. because there is much more power drain on the positive rail it drops much quicker, but there is a sensor/monitor that shuts the whole thing down when the cell with the largest load reaches 3v.

every consumer has its own low noise regulator, the IV and amp stage uses high end ICs and Zfoil resistors; only 1 resistor, 1 opamp and one buffer per phase in the output stage, no caps, digital volume and as little voltage gain as I could get away with. the ES9018 is well known, the clock has 0.5ps RMS close in phase noise and the BII is a 4 layer PCB

the weakest link is my iriver.

I love the sound, I may have been able to achieve the same musical satisfaction with less, but i'm equally obsessed with paper performance. I like all boxes ticked, now I just need a sexy CNC case.

if something goes on sale, again not this, this was a personal project to stop myself buying everything new that came out, when each was more just different rather than better, but if it does come to pass, I will be charging for my time, costs and some profit, thats how the world works, but its not how some people have been indoctrinated to believe it should work.

Edited by qusp - 11/9/12 at 9:24am
post #915 of 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

realizing why the O2 and ODAC are cheap only takes a few minutes of thought. hint, because their development, design, prototyping, testing and support are not part of the cost because they were given away for free (well I expect the bigger resellers are bearing some of this support, particularly since he who shall not be named seems to have been either assassinated, or gotten bored)

it was and is based on a false economy and the fact some people now wonder why others dont cost this much; because they dont think it through, has done the industry a disservice. the only people making money out of the O2/(ODAC is a bit different its production was licensed) are the people repackaging them and adding a significant margin, much more margin than your average audio reseller would make and for simply putting things in boxes and dropshipping... it also takes all art out of the equation, with the only variation possible with the borg rigs being a different faceplate...
/rant

 

That designer set out to produce superior products which could be built at low cost. He did the research, design, and testing. He succeeded in his goals. Any competent corporation could do the same. Why don't they? For many, it reduces their sales if they find it more difficult to justify the high cost of inferior products.

 

A similar case might be made against companies producing "designer cables." Without any research or design, they cobble together some wire and connectors and add profit amounting to hundreds (or hundreds of thousands) times their actual cost. Does Monoprice do "the industry a disservice?" No, but it does make it more difficult for others to sell overpriced products which have been proven, repeatedly, to produce no audible benefit.

 

Borg rigs? Borg cables!

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