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Wow! Sansa Fuze- color me impressed- Fuze appreciation thread - Page 35

post #511 of 767
I put a 16 GB micro card in my En-V3 cell phone. I bought it at Verizon wireless. Oddly (I was told) most of the phones they had only accepted an 8GB card (at the time) It is confirmed that the Fuze will accept a 16GB card? That is awesome !!!!!!!!!
post #512 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
I have tried to so some research to clear up the controversy surrounding the "day and night" claims that have been made for the LOD.

The chip used in the Fuze is the AMS 3525. Here is the full AMS 3525 data sheet

I have clipped out the specs for the DAC input to line output and the DAC input to HP output for easy comparison:



The outputs are .035 apart
The SNR is slightly better on the HP output by 2 dB
The DR is slightly better on the HP output by 1 dB
The THDs are exactly the same

Nice find, but after looking at the block diagram, those specs are only at the dac output. It looks like the dac has 3 outputs, separate ones for line out, headphone, and it looks like stereo?. I think that fuze uses the HP and line out separately, so assuming they don't mess with the Line output from the dac,your fuze LOD would have those characteristics going into your external amp. But the HP out would be a different story, if someone could measure and compare the snr, thd, etc.. that'd be nice. But at this point, the only think we can be shure of is that the LOD has the characteristics you posted, but a fuze HP out may not.
post #513 of 767
Newegg is a great store with awesome service. I got a 16GB microSD card from them, had a problem and they sent me a replacement the day they received the defective one!

Not to knock DealExtreme, I have stuff I am waiting on from them right now, Newegg is slightly more expensive for a name brand product with a warranty and great company backing. If the 8Gb card was 1/2 price, sure, but for near the price, I personally wouldn't chance it. And from time to time Newegg has 8GB Transcend cards for $15 with free shipping.

@Woody469: Have a 16GB card in my Fuze right now working beautifully!
post #514 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post
Newegg is a great store with awesome service. I got a 16GB microSD card from them, had a problem and they sent me a replacement the day they received the defective one!

Not to knock DealExtreme, I have stuff I am waiting on from them right now, Newegg is slightly more expensive for a name brand product with a warranty and great company backing. If the 8Gb card was 1/2 price, sure, but for near the price, I personally wouldn't chance it. And from time to time Newegg has 8GB Transcend cards for $15 with free shipping.

@Woody469: Have a 16GB card in my Fuze right now working beautifully!
True and if I were in the US, I would just buy from Newegg.com. In my case, I'm in Canada, and Newegg.ca tends to have very high shipping costs, and other stores here were quite a bit more expensive than DX when factoring in shipping.
post #515 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslan123 View Post
True and if I were in the US, I would just buy from Newegg.com. In my case, I'm in Canada, and Newegg.ca tends to have very high shipping costs, and other stores here were quite a bit more expensive than DX when factoring in shipping.
Ah, I see. I am glad that the card from DX works. It's a shame shipping costs are so high.
post #516 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdupiano View Post
Nice find, but after looking at the block diagram, those specs are only at the dac output. It looks like the dac has 3 outputs, separate ones for line out, headphone, and it looks like stereo?. I think that fuze uses the HP and line out separately, so assuming they don't mess with the Line output from the dac,your fuze LOD would have those characteristics going into your external amp. But the HP out would be a different story, if someone could measure and compare the snr, thd, etc.. that'd be nice. But at this point, the only think we can be shure of is that the LOD has the characteristics you posted, but a fuze HP out may not.
One would imagine that 2 amps configured differently as can be seen in the attached picture would sound different even if the specs were very similar/the same.
LL
post #517 of 767
Just got my Sansa Fuze today. This little thing sounds amazing. If it sounds this good without amp and good headphone, I am beginning to wonder how much better this will get with them.
post #518 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetPoet View Post
Just got my Sansa Fuze today. This little thing sounds amazing. If it sounds this good without amp and good headphone, I am beginning to wonder how much better this will get with them.
It does sound great! But IMO you can still go up quite a ways. If you stick around here long enough your wallet will be much lighter and you will be closer to auditory heaven!
post #519 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetPoet View Post
Just got my Sansa Fuze today. This little thing sounds amazing. If it sounds this good without amp and good headphone, I am beginning to wonder how much better this will get with them.
Hi Poet

Good Headphones:
Will definitely improve the sound.

Portable Amp: Will allow you to drive hard to drive headphones louder than the Fuze can, but will not necessarily be an improvement in SQ, past the point where louder appears to sound better.

Custom LOD for the Fuze:
Not necessary. Be very suspicious of custom LOD promoters. They are usually trying to sell you something.

USG

Edit: although the portable amps will allow you to play louder, they will not be able to give you the SQ of a good desktop amp like a M^3 or GS-1.....
post #520 of 767
I plan on using my 8GB fuze with my jh13's when they come in the next couple weeks. Does the fuze do these phones justice? Anyone else have this combo? I can't make any complaints about the unit. It works well with my Sony ex300's that I've had for the past few months.
post #521 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Hi Poet

Good Headphones:
Will definitely improve the sound.

Portable Amp: Will allow you to drive hard to drive headphones louder than the Fuze can, but will not necessarily be an improvement in SQ, past the point where louder appears to sound better.

Custom LOD for the Fuze:
Not necessary. Be very suspicious of custom LOD promoters. They are usually trying to sell you something.

USG

Edit: although the portable amps will allow you to play louder, they will not be able to give you the SQ of a good desktop amp like a M^3 or GS-1.....
Interesting, I purchased a custom LOD for the Fuze, and with my Amp3/UM3X combo (also sounds good with the Denon 710s), it sounds fantastic to my ears, better than HP out without amping. No regrets on purchasing it, none. I used an LOD with my iPod Touch/Minibox E as well, and also thought it made a SQ difference. So I do not dismiss the LOD as not necessary. The relatively low cost of the LOD was worth it, in my view. Just going by my ears, nothing else.

Granted, I typically use it at home only, rather than drag an amp along, but when sitting still, I have used the LOD with the Fuze and an amp, albeit just with those two phones.

UPDATE: To further get into this LOD issue, I just did an extensive listening session with this setup. Fuze>LOD>high end mini to mini cable>Amp3>Grado SR-80 (best synergy with Amp3 in my view). All I can say is, as I already stated, the difference between the HP out, both direct with the Grados and using just the HP out with just the cable to the Amp3 (bypassing the LOD) is like night and day. The air, detail, crisp highs and improved soundstage are evident when using the LOD, but NOT when using the HP out. I will say the Amp3 does improve the sound using HP out, but not on the same level of detail, and clean, open sound that emanated from the Grados.

I listened to various genres, mostly the type of music I like, (J. Taylor, Norah Jones, Brubeck, Bromberg, etc.) and some indie rock, as well as a little classical (Yo-Yo Ma, some well-recorded Mozart, Beethoven) and I must say, this experience has me down as a true Fuze LOD convert. I had listened before, with the UM3X and the C710s, which both hiss a little with the Amp3. No such issues with the Grados, which is why I selected them for this listening test.

Frankly, I don't really care what any charts/graphs say, the Fuze LOD is not hype to my ears, not after that hour-long concentrated listening session. I will say that the combo is not as impressive with poorly recorded/mastered tracks, but that should come as no shock. To me, the LOD was worth every penny of the investment. Having said that, I repeat that I use the Fuze mainly with the UM3X or C710s via HP out as an on the go player, previously preferring the simplicity of the Amp3 (as player) for at home listening (after selling the Minibox and the T4, since the Amp3 is both a player and a quality portable HP amp). But now, I may switch over to the Fuze/LOD/Amp3 for home listening because at this point, the Fuze gui is much easier on the eyes and offers a more expanded overall playlist (24GB with 16GB micro SDHC card, vs. 12GB with the Amp3, 4GB with 8GB card).
post #522 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
Interesting, I purchased a custom LOD for the Fuze, and with my Amp3/UM3X combo (also sounds good with the Denon 710s), it sounds fantastic to my ears, better than HP out without amping. No regrets on purchasing it, none. I used an LOD with my iPod Touch/Minibox E as well, and also thought it made a SQ difference. So I do not dismiss the LOD as not necessary. The relatively low cost of the LOD was worth it, in my view. Just going by my ears, nothing else.

Granted, I typically use it at home only, rather than drag an amp along, but when sitting still, I often use the LOD with the Fuze and an amp.
Hi tstarn

I'm not familar with your Denon 710s, the Amp3 or how loud you like to listen.

My experience was that if I stayed within the power limits of the Fuze, the level of clarity coming out of the Fuze was slightly better than what came out of a portable amp. Of course everything changes when you require more volume than the Fuze can supply, because louder always appears to sound better.

Using a LOD on a Fuze is completely different from using a LOD with an ipod. My understanding is that the ipod has an analog amp between the DAC and the HP out, which is bypassed by the LOD, and therefore the LOD/amp with an ipod is able to sound better than the HP out or an amped HP out. This is not the case with the Fuze which doesn't have an additional analog amp between the DAC and the HP out. As you can see from the chart I posted, the measurements from Line out and HP out are so close they can be considered to be audibly the same.

So, three things:

- How does the amped HP out (at 100% Hi volume) compare to the amped line out?

- And for the purpose of this discussion, so we can understand which LOD you are referring to, who made the LOD you are using for your Fuze and where were you able to obtain it?

- Could you post a picture of your rig?

Regards

USG
post #523 of 767
Just an early response is loudness has nothing to do with it in my case, as I get plenty of volume from the Fuze with the Grados, no amp. No, it was a quality difference, not a perceived quality difference rendered by just being louder.

Not sure about all the innards, amps, etc., I am just stating the difference I heard in SQ, as noted in my feedback. It's there, undeniable, and it was much more than a loudness issue. Already noted that the amped HP out WAS an improvement over HP out no amp, but the LOD added another subtle but obvious level of detail, clarity and a tad more air to the presentation, and I did an apples to apples comparison track-wise for that test. Hey, could be my ears deceiving me, but I retried the listening several times to ensure I was "hearing things" and there was a difference. Sounded like there was to me is all I can tell you. The LOD just seemed to give the music an even lighter, more detailed ambiance, and a little less congested as well. I could tell the difference, but maybe some can't.

As for where I got the LOD, a friend built it for me (I paid him for materials). He just used a recipe he got from another friend, can't tell you where, because I really don't know. I can ask him, I guess. Why is that relevant? I will ask what's inside, and post it, when I get a chance.

It's black is all I can tell you right now.

Posting a photo requires work, so when I get to it, I will.
post #524 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
Just an early response is loudness has nothing to do with it in my case, as I get plenty of volume from the Fuze with the Grados, no amp. No, it was a quality difference, not a perceived quality difference rendered by just being louder.

Not sure about all the innards, amps, etc., I am just stating the difference I heard in SQ, as noted in my feedback. It's there, undeniable, and it was much more than a loudness issue. Already noted that the amped HP out WAS an improvement over HP out no amp, but the LOD added another subtle but obvious level of detail, clarity and a tad more air to the presentation, and I did an apples to apples comparison track-wise for that test. Hey, could be my ears deceiving me, but I retried the listening several times to ensure I was "hearing things" and there was a difference. Sounded like there was to me is all I can tell you. The LOD just seemed to give the music an even lighter, more detailed ambiance, and a little less congested as well. I could tell the difference, but maybe some can't.

As for where I got the LOD, a friend built it for me (I paid him for materials). He just used a recipe he got from another friend, can't tell you where, because I really don't know. I can ask him, I guess. Why is that relevant? I will ask what's inside, and post it, when I get a chance.

It's black is all I can tell you right now.

Posting a photo requires work, so when I get to it, I will.
Hi tstarn

"I know a guy who knows a guy" is not quite the answer I expected.

Is this a local friend or someone on your friends list?

OK, standing by for photo.

USG
post #525 of 767
What's inside? My friend tells me it's this...

Simple high pass filter with audio quality AVX capacitors.
Metal film resistors to a copper contact jack
Silver solder and brilliance wire from the cable for the hookup.

Apart from that, it's really no one's business where I buy anything. I said a friend made it for me at cost, and that should be enough. Really not concerned with what answer you expected, to be honest.

I saw you made a statement about LODs, which I then decided to investigate further, since while I owned one, I was not a heavy user to that point (for convenience sake). Now, since you posted, I am a believer. Checked it out with my own ears. Found I was missing something.

I guess to be a disbeliever, or on the flip side, a believer, you'll have to try it yourself, since it is really the only way to offer an opinion on the matter. Right?
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