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post #91 of 782
This reminds of art, well music is art so it's not that big of a stretch.

Classical Music is like Renaissance art.
Folk Music is like Folk Art.
Jazz is like Impressionism.
Rock is like Modernism.
Metal is like Expressionism.
Electronica is like Surrealism.
Hip-Hop is like Post-Modernism.
Pop is like paint by numbers.

I will return and follow this up and name artists in each style and dicribed them for those people who don't know a lot about the visual arts, later.
post #92 of 782
Why is Spaltro sounding more and more like the stereotypical Italian gangster who visits Snipes's character's crack house in _New Jack City_? It's a love-hate frequency you're hitting, need we leak more?

Iceberg Slim and Johnny Stampanato should have [had] intercrural relations and gotten it over with so that none of this adolescent xenophobia/xenophilia would be happening now and no imaginary ethnic subsets of insecure males would be involved in a tug-o'-member over who has the largest criminal penis.

The only thing I find annoying about rap is its aftermath: a legion of suburban kids and record company frankensteins affecting authenticity by copying someone else's hard-won style, personal history, vocabulary and insights. I say, if you want to know about your true cultural orientation, then listen to how your *mother* talks -- not Murder, Inc. Once you know that, you're free to explore the artificial without having to reproduce a single source.

[Edit: One other thing, KR: In your list of artistic equations, I might say that hip-hop, not rap, equals postmodernism. Rap's involved, of course. But it's only one aspect of hip-hop culture. (DJs belong to hip hop, not rap specifically, and DJs are veritable avatars of the postmodern.)]
post #93 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by scrypt
[Edit: One other thing, KR: In your list of artistic equations, I might say that hip-hop, not rap, equals postmodernism. Rap's part of it, of course. But rap is only one part of hip-hop culture. (DJs belong to hip hop, not rap specifically, and DJs are practically avatars of the postmodern.)]
You are correct, plus I lefted out Pop, let me update it.

Folk music covers a lot of ground and all types of music can be trance to it and the best embraces it.
post #94 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by scrypt
Why is Spaltro sounding more and more like the stereotypical Italian gangster who visits Snipes's character's crack house in _New Jack City_? It's a love-hate frequency you're hitting, need we leak more?
]
Huh
post #95 of 782
Thanks for the kind reply, waylman.
post #96 of 782
Since I am feeling Post-Modernistic, I just take some quotes from the great http://www.artcyclopedia.com/

What is...

Renaissance art = "The Renaissance was a period or great creative activity, in which artists broke away from the restrictions of Byzantine Art. Throughout the 15th century, artists studied the natural world, perfecting their understanding of such subjects as anatomy and perspective."

"The High Renaissance was the culmination of the artistic revolution of the Early Renaissance, and one of the great explosions of creative genius in history. It is notable for three of the greatest artists in history: Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo Buonarroti, and Raphael."

Folk Art = How can I describe this in simple terms? I don't know if I can at the moment, but I think that most people know what this is. Not really an art style but rather a movement.

Impressionism = "Impressionism is a light, spontaneous manner of painting which began in France as a reaction against the formalism of the dominant Academic style. Its naturalistic and down-to-earth treatment of its subjects has its roots in the French Realism of Corot and others.

The movement's name came from Monet's early work, Impression: Sunrise, which was singled out for criticism by Louis Leroy on its exhibition.

The hallmark of the style is the attempt to capture the subjective impression of light in a scene.

The core of the earliest Impressionist group was made up of Claude Monet, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, and Alfred Sisley. Others associated with this period were Camille Pissarro, Edgar Degas, Gustave Caillebotte, Frederic Bazille, Edouard Manet, and Mary Cassatt."

Modernism = Also, not really an art style but a movement. It includes Cubism, Abstract Expressionism, and Pop Art.

Expressionism = "Expressionism is a style of art in which the intention is not to reproduce a subject accurately, but instead to portray it in such a way as to express the inner state of the artist. The movement is associated with Germany in particular, and was influenced by such emotionally-charged styles as Symbolism, Fauvism, and Cubism.

There are several different and somewhat overlapping groups of Expressionist artists, including Die Brücke, Der Blaue Reiter, Die Neue Sachlichkeit and the Bauhaus School.

Leading Expressionists included Wassily Kandinsky, George Grosz, Franz Marc, and Amadeo Modigliani."

Surrealism = "Surrealism is a style in which fantastic visual imagery from the subconscious mind is used with no intention of making the artwork logically comprehensible. Founded by Andre Breton in 1924, it was a primarily European movement which attracted many members of the chaotic Dada movement. It was similar in some respects to the late 19th-century Symbolist movement, but deeply influenced by the psychoanalytic work of Freud and Jung.

The Surrealist circle was made up of many of the great artists of the 20th century, including Jean Arp, Max Ernst, Giorgio de Chirico, Man Ray, Joan Miro, and Rene Magritte. Salvador Dali, probably the single best-known Surrealist artist."


Post-Modernism = Yet again, not a art style but a movement. However, the The Sensation Show is a perfect example of it.

"The Sensation shows in London and New York were sources of intense controversy or noisy hype, depending on your point of view, but they certainly succeeded in sparking some of the most serious debates on the role of art in society in recent years.

In London, the lightning rod for controversy was Marcus Harvey's portrait of notorious child murderer Myra Hindley, done Chuck Close-style using hundreds of children's handprints. This piece was physically attacked at least twice: once it was pelted with eggs and on another occasion it had ink thrown at it. (Harvey's approach to conservation is worth noting: he cleaned the stains off the painting with a scouring pad.)

When the show came to New York, public fury centered around Chris Ofili's painting The Holy Virgin Mary, which portrays an African Madonna and is accessorized by a clump of elephant dung."

"In retrospect, it's undoubtedly significant that Charles Saatchi made his fortune in advertising. Sensation was a huge success which brought in millions of dollars in revenue, and generated many more millions worth of free publicity for Saatchi and his artists, not to mention the many politicians, pundits and critics who waded into the debate on "decency" vs. free speech."

paint by numbers =
post #97 of 782
Nice list, KR.

Regardless of how beautifully synthetic they might seem later, most artistic periods begin with an attempt at immediacy -- to see a thing as naturally as possible, even though that seemingly natural aspect will appear more mannered over time. Hence the plainness of Wordsworth's diction, and its intense effect on certain artists of the Romantic Period:-- to them, plainness was the revelation of the time, not artifice. Yet, ironically, the most archaic and artificial work of the Romantics is often the best: Keats's Lamia, Hyperion, Eve of St. Agnes and the Odes; De Quincey's Confessions of an English Opuim Eater and Suspiria de Profundis; Walter Savage Landor's Imaginary Conversations; Charles Lamb's Essays of Elia; Thomas Love Peacock's Nightmare Abbey and Crotchet Castle; and Thomas Lovell Beddoes's neo-Elizabethan Death's Jestbook (Darley was also neo-Elizabethan). In retrospect, we identify the time by its use of metaphor: resonant symbolism (amplifying the emotional content; making a thing seem larger) as opposed to allegory (literalizing a set of emotions or abstract ideas as concretions, making each thing seem smaller while calling into play intricate levels of cognitive dissonance). But in their own time, Coleridge and Wordsworth saw their kind of writing as a way of making poetry less rigid and archaic (since their predecessors were neo-classicists such as Gray, Pope and Dryden).

I've always thought the Beats were a pale xerox of the Romantics. Kerouac hadn't a tenth of the courage or commitment of Coleridge (who, with Wordsworth, attempted to form a pantisocratic society without any laws and for that reason married a woman almost randomly), or Shelley (who was kicked out of Oxford for writing and distributing a pamphlet on the necessity of atheism).

Anyway.

Often, the historical artist tends to want to think her/his insight must be immediate. The creation of a new style often comes from this impossible quest for truth as style or technique.

The same thing is true in the culture: the plague of our Stateside culture is its acceptance of the illusory as authentic. Simply by presenting and repeating charged symbols in a particular order, politicians can get Americans to accept what would seem intolerable if the ideological and iconographic resonance were removed.

Like every other kind of music, rap had to be pithed of meaning to be accepted, which is why people who dislike and/or exploit it have reduced it continually to a tangle of gold chains and illiterate nursery rhymes.

Here's an interesting paper titled "Beastie Boys: Conventions of Authenticity in the Rap Subculture." It seems to explore what I've been saying about the myth of the authentic:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/fridaysixpm/

BTW: Does anyone remember horror rap?
post #98 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by scrypt
BTW: Does anyone remember horror rap?
I remember that they used to play Gravediggaz on a death metal radio show of all things. The host was a big fan of anything and everything that had to do with horror.

Here a link :

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.n...256A26000EFA74
post #99 of 782
scrypt & KR... great posts, you turned a potential mini flame war into a rather interesting art history lesson.

Quote:
Originally posted by scrypt

BTW: Does anyone remember horror rap?
No. (thankfully)
post #100 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by KR...
I remember that they used to play Gravediggaz on a death metal radio show of all things. The host was a big fan of anything and everything that had to do with horror.

Yeah, the Gravediggaz weren't half bad at the time. Prince Paul just played a show here.
post #101 of 782
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by wahoox2
Well, at least it is MUSIC. I may not like a lot of jazz, but I can appreciate it.
But Rap is NOT music. No one plays any instruments. It's some idiot talking, with a computer making up sounds, or copying off of someone elses musical talent for background. Heck, a lot of Pop is borderline.
It may be an artform, but it is not music.

SO SO true.
post #102 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by MetalHead666
SO SO true.
Have you even HEARD of The Roots?
post #103 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by williamgoody
Have you even HEARD of The Roots?
Actually, I just downloaded one of their songs, after all the hype here, I had to hear it for myself to give it a chance. Boy I must say that they really are not good at all, LOL. They can't play, sing, and the rapping sounds ridiculous. It was one of the worst things I ever heard. The only good thing I can say about that I was laughing pretty damn hard at just how god awful it was, so it was good for a chuckle.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
post #104 of 782
Quote:
Originally posted by MusicLover
I think I may know which song it is. Eminem has a rap song that changes into Aerosmith's "Dream On" for the chorus. Pretty stupid if you ask me.
That may be it. I think it was Aerosmith I heard.
Is this a common style for rap music?
post #105 of 782
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by williamgoody
Have you even HEARD of The Roots?
no.
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