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Science behind burn in - Page 4

post #46 of 58
I don't believe in burn in past a short initial stage (which is done at the factory most of the time). I believe we get used to the sound and not the other way around. All my equipment seems to get better but the more I listen the more I believe that it's just me getting used to it. It's like music, it takes a long time to really get some records, did those records require burn-in or is it your ears that finally got it? I believe in the latter. We are the observer, we are in charge.
post #47 of 58
hmmm... interesting... I tend to belive everthing should have a go as its right or not right in at least a minute part of the sense. Also everything is so relative to physical and mental states of both the observer and world around it - in the broadest term there is. Everthing ever consived are just at best very good aproximations - a good exsample of the is that math, logic will disprove what I just typed as its fairly much the truth to a very very high degree with very extreme local special cases.

BTW I'm going to look into gathering these discussion fields some time soon and lay the myth, hearsay, facts of both sides on the table... So one atleast can make an informed conclusion of their own. While your own experince might matter it doesn't mean that everthing else says that its just a freak case or special case etc.
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopter34234 View Post
Alright, I will give you this, in theory it is possible that if the components get hot enough the conductors would be annealed which removes defects and would increase sound performance. However, this is very unlikely, the temperatures required for most metals are hundreds of degrees. Typically when you have local defects in a structure (mechanical or electrical), further use will cause further degradation until failure.
So are you saying a 22ohm resistor is manufactured to 19.89 ohms to allow for burn in! and if so, does the amp sound better at first power up then changes in sound as you lsten to it because all the components are changing value with heat....your talking gibberish. I can see drivers changing with burn in due to the fact the suspension on a driver can loosen up from production status but electrical components....please
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladislav View Post
I don't believe in burn in past a short initial stage (which is done at the factory most of the time). I believe we get used to the sound and not the other way around. All my equipment seems to get better but the more I listen the more I believe that it's just me getting used to it. It's like music, it takes a long time to really get some records, did those records require burn-in or is it your ears that finally got it? I believe in the latter. We are the observer, we are in charge.
I totaly agree...I have a set of Klipsch promedia 2.1 in my screened in porch (smoking room) and recently picked up a Samsung DVD player and at first found the sound to be somewhat lacking in treble.....a few minutes later and a couple beers it sounded much better. I do feel some folks get "used to the sound" and justify a purchase of a new set of wires as "wow that sounds so much better". I have seen 6meter speaker wires for $1500....are you KIDDING me. Snake oil...a sucker born every minute...etc
post #50 of 58
I also fully believe that most burn-in is all in the mind .... that is the reason why I don't like to switch back and forth between headphones very often
because I find it resets my psychological burn-in for a while .
post #51 of 58
I didn't have a real opinion one way or the other as I never heard any major transformations in sound. Maybe the treble smoothed out, the bass tightened or the sound seemed flow more naturally. That was until I tried a few single driver speakers. At least in those cases there is no doubt in my mind that break in is real in some situations. I heard repeated differences and changes in sound and it was real. I don't know how or why but I heard it and was in disbelief. It wasn't a case of my ears getting used to the sound either because many times I would only listen to see how things were progressing. I used a combination of the same album and same song looped, so there was little confusion there.

Nowadays I burn things in for X amount of hours just as a matter of habit before any critical listening. I listen upon arrival for a baseline and then just back an intervals. Personally, if something is has a edgy aggressive treble, that's not something I'm going to get used to. Usually it's subtle changes here and there but the sound signature remains the same.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by adanac061 View Post
I also fully believe that most burn-in is all in the mind .... that is the reason why I don't like to switch back and forth between headphones very often
because I find it resets my psychological burn-in for a while .
Well interesting enought research in that direction actually indicates that when you learn/adjust to new of hearing things its more like learning a language. That is when you return to something old after a long exposure of something new you should almost instantly have the same experince as when you left the old one. That was how ever based on a test before and after with 6 weeks of artificial changed hearing with an attached platic bit on the pinna (outer ear flap thingy). And as far as I know there is no one who knows how long it takes for the brain to adjust fully to a new listing "experince" if its not experinced 24/7 for weeks like in the hearing aid related research that have done this.
post #53 of 58

I think it it real, but maybe not the 300-400 hrs crazy amounts of burn in that people claim, my IE8's weren't soo good out of the box, after about 13 hrs they are very good. An initial burn in of about 24 hrs max is all you really need.

 

Some have dynamic drivers - if you think about it the speaker stretches back and forwards like a pair of shoes. After a few hours of walking around in shoes they will be as bendy and confortable as they will ever be. After that all your doing is adding your own "scent" and getting battle scars on them. 


Edited by dicer999 - 4/23/11 at 3:49pm
post #54 of 58
Hmm - I have often pondered as the the REALITY of burn - in as compared to the burn - in of our ears and our ability to really hear the details of a new piece of eq...

Wish there were some scientific proof to gaze over...
post #55 of 58
break-in measurements

Read the whole article, especially the summary. smily_headphones1.gif
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjohnusa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopter34234 View Post
Alright, I will give you this, in theory it is possible that if the components get hot enough the conductors would be annealed which removes defects and would increase sound performance. However, this is very unlikely, the temperatures required for most metals are hundreds of degrees. Typically when you have local defects in a structure (mechanical or electrical), further use will cause further degradation until failure.
So are you saying a 22ohm resistor is manufactured to 19.89 ohms to allow for burn in! and if so, does the amp sound better at first power up then changes in sound as you lsten to it because all the components are changing value with heat....your talking gibberish. I can see drivers changing with burn in due to the fact the suspension on a driver can loosen up from production status but electrical components....please


There is some merit to that example - some. In designs that require specific calibrations, ie resistor bridges, a 1% resistor tolerance can destroy the sensitivity and/or linearity of the measurements. This though, it a poorly engineered way to take a measurement.

 

I agree with all your saying, many components have large tolerance ranges, resistors (1-10%), etc and if an audio circuit is made such that each resistor is required to be exactly equal, I would question how many units this seller has sold.

 

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

break-in measurements

Read the whole article, especially the summary. smily_headphones1.gif

TKs - I will!!
post #58 of 58

Speakers take time to break in.  It takes time for the adhesives to cure fully, and this process is aided by use at moderate volumes.  Also, over time, the magnets in the drivers can demagnitize a little.  How much does this effect the sound over say 100 hours? Probably not much.  I have to imagine that the small drivers in headphones that have to carry such low frequencies need to have a certain flexibility, and anything that is flexible enough to handle 10hz but rigid enough for 20khz is bound to change with time and use.  My M50's have opened up a little since I've gotten them, but I didn't "burn them in" over 100 consecutive hours.

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