New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

USB cable and Sound Quality - Page 9  

post #121 of 134

Possibly, but in a difference that is so marginal that it makes no difference. What tends to happen is the audiophile finds a potential difference and exaggerates it into something that could be audible. Then they are able to attribute 'differences' between cables to the cable.

 

But then when all of these 'differences' are hidden and only the ear is used, the 'differences' disappear.

post #122 of 134

I've used Kimber USB cables, NuForce, and a myriad of standard USB cables.  There differences not only between the nicer ones, but the cheaper throw aways as well. 

post #123 of 134

As long as the HDMI cable is built to specifications and cost 3 dollars it's just as good as a cable costing 80 dollars built by Monster or Kimble. I do prefer the cable got goldplated connectors and shielding.

post #124 of 134

I've got the Furutech GT2 cable and I'm super happy with it, I've done a comparison with the stop cable and it my be a placebo affect but I'm defintaley glad I bought it !  Good build quality for sure.  Just makes you feel better, with better components and all!

post #125 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kboe View Post

I've used Kimber USB cables, NuForce, and a myriad of standard USB cables.  There differences not only between the nicer ones, but the cheaper throw aways as well. 



By any chance, have you tried Wireworld? I was thinking of Kimber, but they have a similar price entry model.

post #126 of 134

This is ridiculous. USB cables are DIGITAL. As long as the data is being checked on both sides of the connection the data is IDENTICAL. Bit per Bit. USB is more than fast enough to push the data. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Data_packets

 

USB is NOT analog so if something does interfere with the signal the data will be sent and again and your audio will either skip or stop completely. It is not possible for the audio to have small, subtle effects such as opening up the soundstage or having better treble.

post #127 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricolage View Post

This is ridiculous. USB cables are DIGITAL. As long as the data is being checked on both sides of the connection the data is IDENTICAL. Bit per Bit. USB is more than fast enough to push the data. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Data_packets

 

USB is NOT analog so if something does interfere with the signal the data will be sent and again and your audio will either skip or stop completely. It is not possible for the audio to have small, subtle effects such as opening up the soundstage or having better treble.


 

Please... we have so many threads on USB cables going and the same errors are repeated again and again and again. So, let's say it again:

 

- In all USB audio devices, the data is not error corrected and data is not resent in case of errors. All the USB audio protocols are isochronous (be they synchronous, adaptive or asynchronous) and isochronous transfers do not allow for error correction (see http://mprolab.teipir.gr/vivlio80X86/usb11.pdf , pt 8.7 and http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/audio10.pdf , pt 3.3 and following).

 

- There is room for subtle effects in the USB chain as most USB audio receivers (synchronous and adaptive) generate their system clocks on the basis of the timing of the arriving USB packets. Depending on the receiver, the jitter of this system clock can go from a few ns to ms (not a typo). This jitter will affect the accuracy of the digital to analog conversion.

 

 

However, that doesn't mean that, in my view, cables are likely to have an effect. The big trouble with USB audio is that the quality of the clock inside the source computer isn't guaranteed at all ; I suggest reading the discussion starting here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/417785/yes-virgina-there-is-a-difference-in-usb-cables/150#post_7254553

post #128 of 134

There are analytic instruments that can measure jitter in digital transmission cables down to levels that are relevant to audio data.  The lack of such measurement information from boutique USB cable makers suggest that either they do not understand how to measure jitter (in which case they should not be making cables) or that there is no difference in the transmission characteristics between the boutique cables and the cord on your USB mouse.  Consider that any company having such measurements (verified by an independent testing lab) would basically own the market.

post #129 of 134

So there is a common understanding that when a USB/Coax is transferring a digital signal, the quality of the cable would not affect the quality of the signal( let's say the length of the cable is under 1.5m )? However, when transferring a analog signal, the conclusion is different? 

 

The reason why is that I'm Looking for a pair of IC for my CD Transport, Although I would like to have decent quality Cable, it might have its use later. 

post #130 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrucYSN View Post

So there is a common understanding that when a USB/Coax is transferring a digital signal, the quality of the cable would not affect the quality of the signal( let's say the length of the cable is under 1.5m )? However, when transferring a analog signal, the conclusion is different? 

 

The reason why is that I'm Looking for a pair of IC for my CD Transport, Although I would like to have decent quality Cable, it might have its use later. 


Wthout a doubt and after doing a blind A/B comparison, my roomate heard a difference between different USB cables whereas I didnt hear it.  I speak of a high end one and a standard one. Nevertheless the difference is based on the shielding IMO, not the data transport itself..

 

post #131 of 134

I have some background in electronics and RF research, so I'll contribute what I can. The answer is Yes and No. (this is long, sorry)

 

For the "No:"

 

As far as the USB signal goes, the important thing is that the bits arrive properly and on time. Since there is some error correction in USB, one or two bits being lost isn't a big deal. Yes, there might be a few tens of microseconds of additional latency, but any USB interface will have a small buffer. So, as long as the cable is of reasonable quality, there's no problem. 

 

Data problems then will be mostly limited to Jitter (since USB has error correction, and lost bits are very rare as it is anyway). A cable will NOT have an effect on the jitter. That's an issue with the clock. So get a reclocker (Hiface, etc, and give that clean power). A cable won't help you here. 

 

Why? Given the physics behind the electrical signals, at 480 MT/s (megatansfers per second) on a single-channel serial link (USB 2.0), any reasonable cable <15 ft won't affect the timing. Make a ridiculous run of 100 metres unbuffered, and you might run into issues. At 10GT/s, yes, there are issues with reflection, timing, and such weirdness (hence with Thunderbolt's active cabling), and with parallel cables running at 100MT/s+. Neither of which apply to USB 2.0. Much less USB 1.1. 

 

 

 

Now, for the "Yes:" Cheaper cables can introduce NON-DATA problems.

 

RF interference for one. A cable is an antenna. So an improperly shielded USB cable may introduce RF interference. Not anything at an audible frequency (the cable is much too short to get any apreciable low-frequency RF). However, higher frequency RF MAY introduce weirdness in the DAC module. So, moral is, make sure the cable is shielded (and the shield is grounded, which any decent cable will). Ferrites do help, in theory. I put my own on. I'm unsure if it made a difference, but they look cool. If you want to be extra cautious, get a USB 3.0 cable. There's more shielding on those.

 

Want to be extra sure? Make a homemade faraday cage and route as much of the cable through it. For extra peace of mind, just put the entire transport in a faraday cage, and make sure your building has a fancy matrix electrical earthing system, or that your hifi system has its very own grounding rod :)

 

But, the biggest problem is that USB comes with a 5V electric power feed. That is coming from a noisy place (your computer). This will affect most transports. Solution? Cut the red wire inside the USB cable, and feed in your own clean 5V power. You need the other three and the foil wrapping. Your cable has foil/metal braided wrapping, right? Any reasonable cable will. 

 

Moral? Get a decent cable. No need for any ridiculous 30USD (internet price) things. What you get from any boutique ones (cough, Monster or Audioquest) is nice looks and bragging rights. The most important thing to remember here is that USB has error correction and any latency (microseconds) introduced will be nullified in the transport's buffer, if the buffer is properly compliant with standards.

 

But a consideration: placebo really is significant in the enjoyment of music. And with DBTs, there is a "confirmation bias" to watch out for. Science has that problem all the time. So from a psychologic and neurological standpoint, if it sounds "better" to use uber-fancy cables, go for it, even if it's simply due to placebo!

 


Edited by Chromako - 7/3/11 at 2:05am
post #132 of 134

Hm.. I dont think that it is the non-data problem but the shielding and building..My experience..okee the one of my roomate..

 

(and the shield is grounded, which any decent cable will). Thats the point to talk about :)


Edited by monoethylene - 7/3/11 at 1:56am
post #133 of 134

One thing I've found is that if you don't connect the connector shells together with the shield, my DAC will go nuts :-)

I wonder if Thunderbolt will ever be used in the distant future for super high res audio transfers.  Its data rate is pretty insane though, more than what you'd need.  

post #134 of 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia View PostI wonder if Thunderbolt will ever be used in the distant future for super high res audio transfers.  Its data rate is pretty insane though, more than what you'd need.  


I doubt thunderbolt will ever come close to USB in ubiquity. I believe it's doomed to the fate of firewire due to the way Apple is using it on its products while every other company and peripheral manufacturer is going USB 3. USB 2 is already more than adequate for 384kHz/32-bit audio.

 

On an unrelated note, I have found USB cables to affect the sound quality -- I went from a monoprice cable to a Wireworld Ultraviolet and now a Furutech GT2 and the difference between the GT2 and Monoprice is too great for even the biggest cable skeptic to deny or claim is placebo. People need to try it for themselves instead of demanding scientific proof of upgraded cable efficacy.


Edited by somestranger26 - 7/8/11 at 6:13pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
This thread is locked