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Should I Buy the ATH-L3000s? - Page 2

post #16 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
Or just point the semi west...
There's an idea! Al has great beer, too.
post #17 of 64
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Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
Although... as much as it wouldn't hurt to get a 2nd opinion about the balanced L3000's with the SDS-XLR, I'd be quite reluctant myself to shell out that kind of money given that at least one other person has tried so hard to get them to work in his (((exact same))) system without success.
I would definitely get second opinions . Someone may love the combo. And I may find tubes that work for me. If I could get a quiet pair of 2C51 as drivers this would be a start.

I hope to bring the combo to the SoCal meet next month so maybe some opinions will come out of that.

Edit: I just noticed the musical preference of the OP. I have not listened to these on my L3000. Electronic is very nice, as long as there is not too much bass.
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
LOL, I just had a good idea: If I buy the L3Ks and decide I don't want them, then I can just sell them to you so that way you don't have to worry about recabling yours! Thas a good deal, right? Right? Eh?
That was more or less how I got by my balanced L3000. Bought them from afrikane already balanced and sol med stock to big-ban.

I have only ever heard them balanced from my RudiStor amp and have never heard a balanced R10 but to mee they have everything that rock needs. I also have the GS-1000 balanced at that is no good for rock imho. On the other hand I absolutely love them for classical and most jazz clearly beating the L3000 in those genres.
post #19 of 64
Thread Starter 
A sincerely helpful post blubliss, just a few questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
The R10 is in a whole different league of refinement, which I find my tastes leaning towards these days.
From what I've heard the R10s are in a whole different league of refinement than most all other phones I've heard. What I'm looking for is less refinement and more punch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
With rock the R10 may not be the best (the HE90 is available for that) but I still really enjoy it.
I can enjoy rock through them too, but it seems that lately when I go on a music listening marathon I always find myself reaching for classical, jazz, and opera because it just sounds so much better through the R10s compared to, say, death metal (yeah, I have very diverse tastes) where it delivers that detail and refinement but lacks that visceral excitement of being in the first few rows of a show.

Two questions:

One: Is your SDS-XLR tuned to the L3Ks? Because I've heard the R10s through SDSs and SDS-XLRs and they don't sound as good as when the amp isn't tuned for them, so that might have a lot to do with how good the L3Ks sound through them.

Two: Did you get the L3Ks recabled by SP? Because I was told that SP has a cable made specifically for the L3Ks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
I have tried lots of tube combinations to make the L3000 better to my ears with some success. The R10 tubes definitely need to be different in the SDS-XLR to my ears.
I'm thinking that if the L3Ks lack refinement and sound a bit muddy then a combo like the 6BL7GT or 6CG7 as inputs with 5687 outputs would be ideal. The 6BL7GT are very neutral and airy with a monstrous soundstage (especially the flat plate types). The 6CG7s are very fast and detailed with great dynamics and the 5687s are very linear with great detail but a small-ish sound. This might help clean up the "mud" you refer to.

The R10s almost demand the Ken Rad 6SN7s in the input stage to bring out the bass. This creates a few problems since the Ken Rads aren't the fastest tubes and the R10s are really power hungry. As outputs I either like the Sylvania VT-231s (the classic combination) which is good enough for classical, jazz, and opera but is too light for anything else, or the aforementioned 6BL7GTs.

Thanks for the great comparison. Now I'm back to not knowing what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
I just noticed the musical preference of the OP. I have not listened to these on my L3000.
No hard rock at all? Like, say, how does Motorhead, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, etc. sound on L3Ks VS R10s?
post #20 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
the next candidate that comes to mind in terms of filling in that gap he has been experiencing with the R10's relative lack of bass, would be a balanced pair of Edition 9.
Hmmmm, interesting suggestion, though I've heard next to nothing about these headphones... Any threads around here?
post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
From what I've heard the R10s are in a whole different league of refinement than most all other phones I've heard. What I'm looking for is less refinement and more punch.
I would agree that the R10 is in a league of its own. Considering what you are looking for you may really love the L3000. It is still an awesome phone and trounces on the HD650 and K271 in most areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
I can enjoy rock through them too, but it seems that lately when I go on a music listening marathon I always find myself reaching for classical, jazz, and opera because it just sounds so much better through the R10s compared to, say, death metal (yeah, I have very diverse tastes) where it delivers that detail and refinement but lacks that visceral excitement of being in the first few rows of a show.
I agree and that's why I have the L3000. I just plugged in some 2C51 in front last night so will try them. Consider also that I just found out that Mikhail (or his asst I guess) mounted the drivers in my L3000 backwards so I just turned them around this weekend. Sound is much better but needs to be tweaked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
Two questions:

One: Is your SDS-XLR tuned to the L3Ks? Because I've heard the R10s through SDSs and SDS-XLRs and they don't sound as good as when the amp isn't tuned for them, so that might have a lot to do with how good the L3Ks sound through them.

Two: Did you get the L3Ks recabled by SP? Because I was told that SP has a cable made specifically for the L3Ks.
One: No it is tuned for the R10.

Two:Yes, he recabled them but i think he has different cables now. My R10 has a newer cable which is actively shielded and plugs into the Enigma he made.

Quote:
I'm thinking that if the L3Ks lack refinement and sound a bit muddy then a combo like the 6BL7GT or 6CG7 as inputs with 5687 outputs would be ideal. The 6BL7GT are very neutral and airy with a monstrous soundstage (especially the flat plate types). The 6CG7s are very fast and detailed with great dynamics and the 5687s are very linear with great detail but a small-ish sound. This might help clean up the "mud" you refer to.
Thank you for the suggestion. I had thought the 6BL7GTAs in front would be too slow. I may try that. I don't have any 6CG7s, do i need an adapter. I think his more recent SDSs have been tuned for the 2C51 as driver.

Quote:
The R10s almost demand the Ken Rad 6SN7s in the input stage to bring out the bass. This creates a few problems since the Ken Rads aren't the fastest tubes and the R10s are really power hungry. As outputs I either like the Sylvania VT-231s (the classic combination) which is good enough for classical, jazz, and opera but is too light for anything else, or the aforementioned 6BL7GTs.
Definitely needs the Ken Rad in front and I have the 6BL7GTAs in back


Quote:
No hard rock at all? Like, say, how does Motorhead, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, etc. sound on L3Ks VS R10s?
No, I haven't listened to that type of music for 25 years, in fact i didn't listen to it then much. Maybe some AC/DC. Considering this is the type of music you are interested in, the L3000 may be perfect for you.

Do you have an electronic file of some of that type of music you could send me? I would try it out for you.
post #22 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
Considering what you are looking for you may really love the L3000.
That's what I keep thinking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
Consider also that I just found out that Mikhail (or his asst I guess) mounted the drivers in my L3000 backwards so I just turned them around this weekend.
Yeesh! How did that happen? LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
One: No it is tuned for the R10.

Two:Yes, he recabled them but i think he has different cables now. My R10 has a newer cable which is actively shielded and plugs into the Enigma he made.
1. That might be part of the problem.

2. What does the shielding do? I got my R10s cabled about 2 years ago, so I don't know what cable was used or if there's any difference now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
I had thought the 6BL7GTAs in front would be too slow. I may try that.
Well, one note: The 6BL7GTAs - at least the RCAs I have - are different than the 6BL7GTs and 6BX7GTs. The L7GTs and X7GTs are, physically, about 1/3 larger. Sonically, the GTAs are a bit like a combination of the BL7GTs/XL7GTs and 6SN7 tubes. They're more musical/warmer than the former, but lack the huge air and soundstage, and not quite as musical, warm, or slow-ish as the latter. I've yet to find a combination I like with the GTAs, but the L7GTs, and X7GTs are excellent all-arounders. Paired with some 6CG7 in the inputs might speed and clear up the L3Ks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
Do you have an electronic file of some of that type of music you could send me? I would try it out for you.
I guess by electronic file you mean mp3s? I don't have any but I could get you some uploaded rather quickly, and probably a good cross-section too.
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
2. What does the shielding do? I got my R10s cabled about 2 years ago, so I don't know what cable was used or if there's any difference now.
I haven't tried to isolate what the shielding does for the headphone cable alone, but connected to the ICs, power cables, and headphone all together, it adds different things depending on what tube you use in the Enigma. I have a thread about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f113/e...ble-ps-346953/

I had someone over this weekend who i would call a skeptic and he heard the same things as me so this thing is for real.

Quote:
Well, one note: The 6BL7GTAs - at least the RCAs I have - are different than the 6BL7GTs and 6BX7GTs. The L7GTs and X7GTs are, physically, about 1/3 larger. Sonically, the GTAs are a bit like a combination of the BL7GTs/XL7GTs and 6SN7 tubes. They're more musical/warmer than the former, but lack the huge air and soundstage, and not quite as musical, warm, or slow-ish as the latter. I've yet to find a combination I like with the GTAs, but the L7GTs, and X7GTs are excellent all-arounders. Paired with some 6CG7 in the inputs might speed and clear up the L3Ks.
Great suggestions. Looks like I will be doing some more tube hunting.

Quote:
I guess by electronic file you mean mp3s? I don't have any but I could get you some uploaded rather quickly, and probably a good cross-section too.
No not mp3s; i only use .wav. Mp3s sound really lifeless on my system. I think I can get some samples on my own. I will report back later. But, as you said, I may need to roll tubes first.
post #24 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
I haven't tried to isolate what the shielding does for the headphone cable alone, but connected to the ICs, power cables, and headphone all together, it adds different things depending on what tube you use in the Enigma. I have a thread about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f113/e...ble-ps-346953/
Fascinating. Perhaps shows how long I've been away from these forums that this whole thing is entirely new to me. I'll check out that thread and might come in with some questions later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post
No not mp3s; i only use .wav. Mp3s sound really lifeless on my system. I think I can get some samples on my own. I will report back later. But, as you said, I may need to roll tubes first.
I can do .wav lossless through WMP. I can get a lot of samples quickly if you want.... well, I have appointment and I can after that. In fact, just let me do that so I can make sure to get a good group of samples of the various kinds of music I'm talking about.
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
I can do .wav lossless through WMP. I can get a lot of samples quickly if you want.... well, I have appointment and I can after that. In fact, just let me do that so I can make sure to get a good group of samples of the various kinds of music I'm talking about.
Ok, sounds good. Will wait to hear from you.

I spoke with Mikhail and he will send me some of those other tubes you mentioned. When is the only question .
post #26 of 64
Thread Starter 
I'm uploading them to MegaUpload now; 12 .wav lossless tracks in a RAR file. You don't have to listen to every minute of all of them, just enough to get a fairly good idea how L3Ks will respond to this kind of music.
post #27 of 64
my L3000 is chilling in the case and it's been a while.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post
I'm uploading them to MegaUpload now; 12 .wav lossless tracks in a RAR file. You don't have to listen to every minute of all of them, just enough to get a fairly good idea how L3Ks will respond to this kind of music.
Ok, pm the link when it's ready. I'll try to do some listening tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantsleep View Post
my L3000 is chilling in the case and it's been a while.
What do you reach for most?
post #29 of 64
I would love a shot at the L3000's, but I have seen the "congested" comment so many times. I must admit, I'm afraid to pull the plug. Any comparisons to other current production phones?

All these comparisons to help for us poor noobies who haven't heard them.
post #30 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantsleep View Post
my L3000 is chilling in the case and it's been a while.
How do they compare with some of your other phones? Lots of goodies you got there...
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