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A Few Questions About My First Vinyl Rig

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Alright, so I have a few questions. I have been wanting to get into vinyl for a few weeks now, mostly to utilize my dad's record collection (he has about 2-300 records, mostly in good condition). My dad has a Micro Seiki DD-20 turntable with a Grado G-1 cart that he hasn't touched in 15 years, and I am sure he would let me have it. So, is this a good place to start? It probably needs a new cartridge/stylus, so what do you recommend? I would also need some sort of phono preamp. Any cheap suggestions? Is it worth the investment, or should I save my money for a new turntable? I know that a direct-drive is not ideal, but should that be a problem?

I also have a few questions about vinyl in general:
How important is isolation? If I put it on my heavy wooden dresser, would that be fine?
How much of a problem is static electricity?
Is it true that records degrade in SQ over time? My dad is warning me not to sink too much money into this because they "don't last very long."
How much of a problem is background noise? I'm talking about the clicks and pops. His records probably need a good cleaning. What do you recommend for cleaning vinyl cheaply?
Can I, knowing very little about turntables, set this thing up myself?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is still new to me. I would also like to keep this cheap, because I am a poor college student. Thank you.
post #2 of 11
x2 on help.

Another question -- Can I use a headphone as a phono amp, or do I need to get a real phono amp?
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528 View Post
I know that a direct-drive is not ideal, but should that be a problem?
And what have you been told about direct drive that has caused you to come to such a conclusion? Don't put much faith in that old wives tale.
post #4 of 11
I have not heard of that turntable before. The Grado cartridge sounds good though. You need a phono stage (preamp) for your turntable, unless you have an integrated amp that has one built in.

You didn't say what kind of tonearm you have, but make sure that you set this up carefully. Set up and align your cartridge carefully as well.

Good isolation is always recommended. Static is not good - I don't have the data that proves this now - and there are anti-static tweaks out there that a lot of vinyl lovers use and there are anti-static sleeves you can buy for your records.

Also, direct drive turntables are fine to use in general. The motor and power supply are the more important areas to look at.

My recommendation is to look up some reputable audio companies to find some good, inexpensive phono stages.
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528
My dad has a Micro Seiki DD-20 turntable with a Grado G-1 cart that he hasn't touched in 15 years, and I am sure he would let me have it. So, is this a good place to start? It probably needs a new cartridge/stylus, so what do you recommend?
Your father has good taste Micro were the top specialist Japanese turntable manufacturer of the 1970s and early '80s.
This is quite a basic model in their range but still very high quality in general, quite equal to anything you'll find under 1000 USD today. I'd say it's a keeper.

The only thing you should check in the way of servicing is the lubricant around the motor bearing which will need replenishing after 15 years of inactivity. I'd post on The Vinyl Engine and ask other Micro owners.

you may be able to get an new stylus for this cart from somewhere like LP Gear who seem to carry a lot of NOS stock from famous American brands like Grado, ADC etc..
If you want a more modern cart I'd go for one of the new Ortofon 2M series which will have a less rolled off top end than the likes of the Shure carts you usually see on these decks on the used market. I would guess this is a low to medium mass tonearm, although Micro also made variable mass arms so you should check if you still have the manual.


In terms of set up this is pretty straight forward. It's a supsended subchassis deck so will be happier than most on a piece of furniture. Light rigid platforms are usually the best for this kind of suspension and Ikea make a low table called a Lack which is perfect for very little outlay. Make sure as well that the deck is level by checking with a spirit level.
The fiddliest bit of set up is aligning the cartridge, which you should check even if you just replace the stylus. You can download a free alignment protractor on the net and print it out or buy one somewhere like Turntable Basics who have lots of reasonably priced accessories like this.

Records don't necessaily degrade in sound quality unless stored badly or played on badly set up or worn out equipment. Record wear is pretty much negligible with a decent modern tonearm and cartridge which track under 3 grams. This used to be more of an issue back in the '50s and '60s when most tonearms were bordering on agricultural and tracked at 5 grams or more, or since then when DJ's put a penny on top of the headshell at parties.

Condition of your inherited collection therefore will depend on how well your dad has looked after his records, just as today people still leave their CDs on the floor out of their cases !

Since he played them on a nice turntable like the Micro, assuming he stored them standing up somewhere cool and dark for the last 15 years then they probably just need a clean. Cleaning machines were well expensive back in the day so only libraries and some shops had them so most people just moved the dust around with a brush if they cleaned at all.

Some companies like Linn even said it was better not to clean and just let the stylus pull the dirt out. The only problem with this, as I myself have discovered over the years, is that the dirt you leave on the playing surface scratches the discs in their covers.

Today though kabusa.com offer a bare bones version of the Nitty Gritty cleaning system which you plug into a conventional vacuum cleaner hose, for 160USD.
When you've cleaned the records be sure to put them in poly lined inner sleeves of the style made by Goldring and Nagaoka which goes some way to prevent scuffing in storage.

Static can be a problem sometimes and it usually depends on the climate where you live and obvious things like man-made fibres in clothes and furniture, which of course there was a superabundance of back in the heyday of vinyl ... It can be annoying but is avoidable with various gadgets.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks memepool for the great, helpful response. I looked at a replacement stylus for the G1 and they were $110! Would it be better to simply buy a new cartridge? Also, what kind of preamp would I need for this cartridge (MM, MC...)? Any recommendations on cheap preamps ($50-$100 preferred)? I'm glad my dad has good tastes. I don't know what kind of tonearm it has, or if it is even stock. I'll have to ask my dad if he remembers.

He did store his records well (standing up in a dark cabinet). Some are pretty scratched while some look brand new.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528 View Post
Thanks memepool for the great, helpful response. I looked at a replacement stylus for the G1 and they were $110! Would it be better to simply buy a new cartridge? Also, what kind of preamp would I need for this cartridge (MM, MC...)? Any recommendations on cheap preamps ($50-$100 preferred)? I'm glad my dad has good tastes. I don't know what kind of tonearm it has, or if it is even stock. I'll have to ask my dad if he remembers.
i'd prbably go with a whole new cartridge anyway. you will need a protractor and a stylus force gauge to ensure the setup is correct. depending on your budget, you can get by with the shure stylus force gauge, and the hi-fi news test lp comes with a paper protractor which will serve your needs. the test lp has lots of useful info and tests to help you optimize your tt setup.

for cartridges, go with an ortofon 2m series cart. for phono preamps, do not get a super-cheapie, or you will never figure out why vinyl sound so good. your cart will be a mm, but the phono stage will still have to have about 35 dB of gain!

hope that helps
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planar_head View Post
x2 on help.

Another question -- Can I use a headphone as a phono amp, or do I need to get a real phono amp?
Nope, you need a phono preamp. Records are cut using the RIAA (yes, them; back when they were good for something) because of physical limitations to groove size. There are technical explanations of this if you want to learn more. But a phono preamp has an equalization circuit in addition to some gain. Headphone amps and preamps just provide gain, not equalization.

Give your Dad's deck a spin! Find the manual, give it a tuneup, change the oil, maybe a new cart. Always give free gear a try - you might like it. Look up how to clean records by hand in the sink. You can do it cheap with good results.
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
As far as I can tell, the tonearm is a MA-505 (Micro Seiki MA-505 | Manual Free Download, Tonearm owners,service,schematics,brochure | Vinyl Engine). That site includes the manuals for it, so set up should be pretty easy.

$100 is a little more than I want to spend on a cartridge. Is the Ortofon 2M Red worth the price difference over say, a Grado Black?

Also, how is the Cambridge Audio 540p as a preamp? Anything better in or around that price class?

Any other accessories I should get? (Set-up, brushes...)

Thanks for all the help!
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528 View Post
As far as I can tell, the tonearm is a MA-505...
I can only find the intructions for the MA-505 mk II in English, and don't speak Japanese so I can't really tell what the effective mass of this arm is. I have a review of this deck in an old magazine I think so I will check for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528 View Post
$100 is a little more than I want to spend on a cartridge. Is the Ortofon 2M Red worth the price difference over say, a Grado Black?
Well the Ortofon is a very good quality modern sounding cart with a very flat response whereas the Grado's have a particular sound which some people really like and others use adjectives like "nostalgic".

Since you already have a classic Grado cart on there anyway I would bite the bullet and get the new stylus rather than buying a cheaper one cart since this is probably a higher end model with such an expensive stylus.

Although the Ortofon is 10 dollars cheaper so it depends on whether you want to experience vinyl as your dad did or hear what a state of the art cart can do.

Either way it's worth spending more on the cart than anything else you need to buy right now definitely.

The Cambridge Audio phonostage is a very good buy definitely.

The only other thing you absolutely need is a brush to clean the dust of the vinyl. The Goldring style one which has a felt pad and two carbon fibre brushes at the sides is the one to go for, and is sold under a variety of names around the world. Hunt EDA seems to be the most widely used name for it in the USA, although LPgear for example call it the X3. It's the same brush.

You can do without stylus force gauges and test records if you are on a tight budget, I think, as the Micro arm has a very precise level of calibration compared to something more modern and minimalist like a Rega. Just download a free alignment protractor from here and print it on card if possible or else just regaular A4 and get it laminated.

I would initially just play the records that look clean to get a feel for it and avoid anything really dusty and dirty. Records are very fragile and easily damaged and although many might disgree with me, personally I wouldn't advise the risk of trying to clean stuff by hand as some of his collection may be rare and valuable.
Better to wait until you decide about whether you like vinyl enough to splash out on a basic Record Cleaning Machine like the KAB one.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivus528 View Post
As far as I can tell, the tonearm is a MA-505
If that's the case, then it is a good score. The MA-505 mainly appeared on the more expensive Micro Seiki decks. The CF-1 covered the midrange, whilst the entry level ones like the DD-20 used a simpler arm as standard.

The MA-505MKI and MKII are not so straight forward to set up compared to the MKIII if you have the VTA version.

The Cambridge Audio phono pre-amp is extremely good for its price. I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between it and anything costing two or three times more. It takes quite a bit of vinyl listening experience before you reach that stage. Do a search on eBay for Nagaoka. They do/did a very good vinyl and stylus cleaning brush. An anti-static gun also comes in handy.
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