Ultrasone Manufacturers' Warranty

Would definitely appreciate that

That would be awesome ultrapaul. Some sort of limited warranty on the headband/earcup hinges and whatnot would be ideal, as that's really the main point of failure that I can see, and isn't touched or affected in any way by a recable job.

We appreciate your efforts. But for those who modded their cans, and yes I am one with my modded HFI-780's.

We should have expected that answer. Lets be real way to many people touching a piece of gear is bound to make a manufacturer worry. IMO they should be since they have no control or say so on what kind of mods are being done.

True - infact, the HFI-780s massive success here was only through it's popularity in how it improved through being modified and recabled!

And the Edition 9s are commonly considered borderline sibilant / harsh with their highs - a big part of why the recabling is so common here, so as to be regularly performed by professionals such as Moon Audio (A Head-Fi Premier Sponsor), ALO Audio (A Head-Fi Premier Sponsor, and a licensed distributor of Ultrasone products) and APureSound - A very well established Head-Fi Member of the Trade


Aside from the topic of modifications and recabling in direct relation to the success of some of Ultrasone's best sellers at Head-Fi, I'd also like to echo some things in another post I've made related to this-

The success of Ultrasone's full product line (especially the more expensive models) here at Head-Fi is made undeniably evident through their presence as a Premier Sponsor here. It is not cheap to acquire the dedicated forum / premier sponsor status. And it costs time for them to be active here for us, too.



This shows us how important the Head-Fi consumer base is to Ultrasone.


I understand the premise of a warranty, and that by altering the original product in any way we lose our warranty coverage

However, a warranty is a facet of customer service

I don't think that we should lose this service because we love our Ultrasone products enough to spend even more money to upgrade them and shape them into a further loved and long-lasting headphone choice for us. Especially when this service is professionally performed - this is honestly a very big upgrade option for the Ultrasone product line. In instances like the HFI-780 - it's been practically necessary for the success of the product itself (Speaking within head-fi related business for Ultrasone)

Ultrasone does not themselves offer us this variety - and I don't think we would want them to. It is comparable to buying a high end DAC or Amplifier. They tend not to have the power cords hard-wired to them. Users want the option of their own after-market cable - and rightly so - people don't spend anywhere from $50-100 bucks to several thousand dollars on their power cables for nothing.

It would be limiting of Ultrasone to restrict us (or force us to part with our warranty) in the common and professionally performed pursuit of getting the most out of our headphones.

This would also be a bit contradictory with the Edition 9 model which is the result of, by their own words on the Edition 9s own Ultrasone page -

"Ultrasone has painstakingly researched all materials and components to ensure they work perfectly together to provide simply the best sound possible"

It is their flagship model, and it's given off as the pursuit of the best. We own this model for that reason - it would be odd to turn around and disservice us in our continued pursuit of the best (especially when it is actually us looking to improve upon a feature of the Edition 9s that pretty clearly did not receive the results of painstakingly researching for the best materials, resulting in the best overall sound. - but this becomes a non-issue if it is acknowledged that that aspect is overlooked - it's not like any other headphone companies give us nice cabling - and, I think we would prefer the option of our own choice in particular recable, as they do differ in results, and people have different tastes)




I appreciate that Ultrapaul is even investigating the possibility for us - it is not common for businesses to be open to any such thing. Though, head-fi definitely has a very above average ratio of customer service. I think this is a good opportunity for us as the customers, as well as Ultrasone in a position to develop a truly talked about level of customer service around here. And that in itself would probably lead to more money than would be 'lost' by their severing our warranties over this


I haven't personally explored options for the rules of how such a thing would work, and what could be offered - the summary would be that it is something. And hopefully more of a full something than an 'at least that much' something.

Hopefully nobody has mistaken me as having heat in my words here, I'm just trying to voice some relative and important things for us as consumers here at head-fi. If anyone else has some points to make, please do I am sure that Ultrasone would appreciate the feedback

Well said Luminette

I agree that it is excellent of ultrapaul to investigate the possibility of addressing this issue. The majority of manufacturers will simply shirk responsibility if any modifications have been performed to their product, as this is the easiest and least costly stance for a manufacturer to take.

But considering the nature of the customer base here on Head-Fi, we are a customer base that greatly values customer service. And word of mouth counts for alot in our community. Exceptional customer service garners intense brand loyalty, which gets passed on through all the "reccomend me a headphone" and review threads we post.

If Ultrasone were to continue to warrant headphones that have been recabled or modified - perhaps only from a list of certain technicians, or other criteria - they would stand apart from the pack by more than their sound quality. And I think this would have a very positive impact on their customer base, both here on Head-Fi and elsewhere.

Agreed.

Hello everyone, I just got my ultrasone edition 9s on monday, recabled and modified from alo audio. Ultrasone does not seem to restrict the sales of heapdhones from usa to europe...
I totally agree with covenants restrictions and Luminettes arguments posted earlier. Maybe some kind of limited warranty could be arranged for people who bought their modified/recabled headphones (or let them be modified/recabled) by people that are known on headfi as doing profesisonal recables/modifications...
Greetings, Anouk,

Hello ultrapaul and others, Ultrapaul, I totally understand this. I did expect, before buying the ed9s from the usa, that, if I had anny warranty issues whatsoever, I would have to send them to the usa for repairs, and that I would have to pay for shipping costs...
Greetings, Anouk,

Hard to avoid the finger-pointing

As Luminette stated, supporting a product that has been significantly modified from stock is not a standard practice for any manufacturer. Try getting your iPod fixed by Apple after an iMod is performed on it.

The thing is, why would you want to? Why send in your expensively modified headphone (with mods that probably cost near as much as the original headphone itself), back to the original manufacturer for service? Would you expect them to take care not to damage the boutique cable you had installed? That's where the finger pointing begins if problems ensue down the road.

Dynamic headphones are not that complicated, and have relatively few parts that can fail. After recabling modifications are done, what is really left to be warranteed? The drivers against failure, and perhaps the headband/earcups from breaking due to some manufacturer's defect.

Better is for modders to develop an "elite modder" business model. They should effectively be both authorized sellers and service centers for the products they sell modded. They should have special access to manufacturer parts so that they (the modders) can warranty the products they sell modded. If I purchase an Edition 9 recabled, I'd want Drew, or Ken, or whomever, to back up their work and to offer some sort of complete warranty coverage for the entire package.

Now, this also opens up another can of worms - what if you sent in your own pair of headphones to be modded, rather than purchasing them new with mods? Should the modder warranty those? Another sticky wicket, and probably not gonna happen (I sure wouldn't).

Ultrasone themselves have brought this up and communicated with us that they are looking into or considering options for this


It's not the standard - largely speaking, even if that is to a percent of 99.999 - but this hardly cements, or even holds real relevance to the way things could be, let alone how they, arguably, should be?


And nobody is demanding anything here


As for asking us why we would want to have our products warrantied after having them recabled or modified is as silly as asking us why we would want them to be warrantied before hand.

They were already expensive to begin with (and if we're talking about a recable for the Edition 9s, it's actually only one sixth of the MSRP)

And, yes, I would expect it to be very easy for them to not damage my "boutique" cable job - I would actually be boggled if these industry professionals managed to really ruin something like that while simultaneously relying on a wariness of the professionalism of the people who perform this to begin with.

This is not a static simplicity - there very likely would be complications revolving around this issue - but these are subject to consideration and communication, not such a swift nix in the name of simplicity and the way things usually are.

As for this quote "Dynamic headphones are not that complicated, and have relatively few parts that can fail. After recabling modifications are done, what is really left to be warranteed? The drivers against failure, and perhaps the headband/earcups from breaking due to some manufacturer's defect."

Nothing in that chunk of words would ever make me feel like I don't want or don't deserve the warranty for my product. Especially when I payed for it. I find it hard to imagine that you would be okay with losing your warranty in the name of an argument like that, either. It almost looks like you're trying to equate simplicity of build structure or number of components with how important it is to be under warranty? And regardless of pricing? These things are very significant financial investments for most of us.


The "elite modder" idea is a good one, but the scale of organization it would take to have enough professional modders to actually service all headphones at large - which is what it would take for companies to contract through them - is very, very very unlikely. These services are usually performed by one or two individual entities. This would also heavily limit our selection.


As for warranties being offered by the individual modders - this does indeed open up a whole new can of worms - which I would ultimately summarize as causing an even worse state of things, having to rely on two warranties that both intensely complicate each other - not to mention that the addition of warranty for a second thing is also an additional cost.

As it is, I think that all of these modders are very good with servicing their customers should things go wrong. Their end is already covered really


We are only looking to retain a warranty on our original Ultrasone product, which has only so slightly been modified (a different cable has been soldered in, and sometimes some dynamat gets pushed onto the backs of the earcups - this isn't the most risk intensive stuff)



Plus... there are all of the relevant things I've mentioned in my large post on the first page, many of which are in the interests of Ultrasone



Bear with us here, I think everybody else on both sides (consumer/ultrasone) here are savvy as to these basic realities of complications and the norm on this issue. That is what makes the efforts of Ultrapaul / Ultrasone at large so appreciable

I never said that. I said that I wouldn't think of sending an expensively-modded product to a manufacturer's service center that has little or no knowledge of the moddification(s), nor a model to fix the modded portions.

See above. MSRP Perhaps. But not relative to Ultrasone's cost of making the E9's, and certainly not relative to their cost of individual parts, including the drivers which are probably their most costly part to make. See above. Screwing with the driver to that extent is way beyond the scope of what a manufacturer should be expected to warranty.

It's not a matter of importance. It's about placing responsibility where it is most appropriate, and (maybe more importantly) where it makes the most business sense. Ken or Drew (to use them as my base example) make boutique cables. Ultrasone at large cannot reasonably be expected to service ssuch boutique products. At the very least, ALO or Moon would have to make their product parts accessible to Ultrasone service. Drew has done this in a special agreement with Grado, and those modded headphones are warranteed by Grado. In that case, Drew provides Grado with the cables, & they are installed at Grado labs. Those are still under warranty by Grado, but I don't believe that headphones sent to Drew for recabling are warranteed. That is a unique partnership, and what is required for such a support model. All modders would have to establish such agreements with the respective headphone manufacturers. Just the opposite. See above re: Grado & Moon Audio. You are making things far too complicated. It is a matter of simplicity. No two warrantees. Just one from the modder. It is far easier to Ultrasone to provide the modders with access to parts than the reverse.
To their credit, I guess. But I fear it is a knee-jerk response to a Head-Fi outcry in an effort to build a relationship after the previous regime was overthrown. In the end, it will not be practical for Ultrasone to service modded products under a manufacter's warranty, imo. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

Imo, we should be putting more pressure on the modders to take on this responsibility, rather than the original manufacturer. By distriguishing themselves as having an elite relationship with the manufacturer, they immediately have a value-add to their product.

Our warranty is concerned with our cost, not Ultrasone's significantly lower cost. As for the driver not being replacable - I would say that this is the more reasonable deduction. Though would still think it to be something up for consideration. Other parts should be kept more readily open, though, from their not being tampered with


I could agree with this conceptually, but, I don't think that most any Headphone companies would be interested in doing this - especially while retaining split identities. And this does still limit selection for the consumer, quite badly. It would be an immense task for either side - I don't think either idea for who should pick up the slack really has merits enough for it to be the responsibility of either - the level of revision this would require on both sides is so unprecedented that the endeavor would seem more up for grabs than an already determined role

Shrug

I think all are interested in what will come out of Ultrasone at this point, not us :P