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192 kbs and 320 kbs, is there really a difference? - Page 21

post #301 of 372

anyone know how lossy compression deals with harmonics?


Edited by fuzzy1969 - 11/15/10 at 8:02am
post #302 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clincher09 View Post

I've always ripped my files in 192 kbs audio format, but some people will only accept 320 kbs. Is there really an audible difference? If I ripped all my music in 320 would there be a noticble difference in sound or will I just be using up more space? What about 192 kbs and windows lossless?

Also, is there a sound difference between mp3 and wma?

no, most likely you will not hear a difference, but i do 320 anyways because i feel better about it biggrin.gif assuming you are using a recent algorithm, mp3 becomes transparent at 160kbps, wma is a slightly better codec then mp3 but only good at higher bitrates because the artifacts screw with the low end a lot, i personally do not like wma because of this. AAC is the best codec when it comes to transparency, it is very difficult to tell the difference between 128kbps AAC and the CD, i use AAC at 320kbps when ripping to lossless. when it come to which codecs reach transparency at lower bitrates first it goes in this order from my own experience, MP3, WMA, OGG, then AAC.
 

post #303 of 372

The difference between 192 and 320 in MP3 is very audible.  With AAC probably not.  I have my whole FLAC library compressed to 192 AAC for my iPhone.  It sounds fine to me.  I used to use 192 for MP3 and it sounded horrible.

post #304 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

The difference between 192 and 320 in MP3 is very audible.  With AAC probably not.  I have my whole FLAC library compressed to 192 AAC for my iPhone.  It sounds fine to me.  I used to use 192 for MP3 and it sounded horrible.



Have you done ABX tests to verify?  192 kbps MP3 sounded horrible?  The difference was very audible?

 

We are in Sound Science and not the phoolery part of head-fi.  We're easy going here, but if you'd have said the same over at HydrogenAudio you'd be instantly banned due to about 8 different TOS violations just with that one post.  very_evil_smiley.gif

 

I kid obviously, but where's the evidence to back up such statements?  What are you listening with?  Which MP3 codec?  How are you hearing such obvious differences?  Do you spend all of your time listening to killer samples meant to trip up lossy codecs rather than listening to real music?

post #305 of 372

 

This was years ago with the Frauenhofer MP3 codec.  I don't need ABX tests to tell me that there are compression artifacts.  I don't buy into ABX testing and yes I have had problems over at HA, a site I don't care for.  I didn't just listen for bad samples, it was in all my music and I could not stand it.  I like hearing all parts of music, and lossy codecs tend to kill the high frequencies, which is mathematically proven.  I was even disgusted by 320 kbps MP3.  Next time I backed up everything I went to 192 kbps AAC which was better, but I could still tell not all the information was there, even with inexpensive equipment.  The last, and current, time I did everything I just kept it FLAC.  16,000 songs (almost 1,700 are 24/96 and 24/192) still leaves me over 150 GB of free space on a 750 GB drive, a luxury I didn't have in the past.  Pretty much everything I got that was a vinyl rip I have deleted from the HD directory I have and have just gone with Redbook rips.  Anything left in the HD part of my collection is DVD-Audio.  I had convinced myself that vinyl was better but I had just EQ'd the hell out of my sound card so Redbook stuff would clip, and quiet vinyl stuff would tend not to.  I use lossy for my phone because I don't ever listen to stuff loud, like at home, and it's always in a more noisy place, so artifacts won't be as audible as just sitting down, relaxed, and listening with a lot of focus.


Edited by ramicio - 12/8/10 at 8:04am
post #306 of 372

Theres a newer fraunhofer encoder 'IIS' a lot of artists i listen to are using it.

post #307 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

 

This was years ago with the Frauenhofer MP3 codec.  I don't need ABX tests to tell me that there are compression artifacts.  I don't buy into ABX testing and yes I have had problems over at HA, a site I don't care for.  I didn't just listen for bad samples, it was in all my music and I could not stand it.  I like hearing all parts of music, and lossy codecs tend to kill the high frequencies, which is mathematically proven.  I was even disgusted by 320 kbps MP3.  Next time I backed up everything I went to 192 kbps AAC which was better, but I could still tell not all the information was there, even with inexpensive equipment.  The last, and current, time I did everything I just kept it FLAC.  16,000 songs (almost 1,700 are 24/96 and 24/192) still leaves me over 150 GB of free space on a 750 GB drive, a luxury I didn't have in the past.  Pretty much everything I got that was a vinyl rip I have deleted from the HD directory I have and have just gone with Redbook rips.  Anything left in the HD part of my collection is DVD-Audio.  I had convinced myself that vinyl was better but I had just EQ'd the hell out of my sound card so Redbook stuff would clip, and quiet vinyl stuff would tend not to.  I use lossy for my phone because I don't ever listen to stuff loud, like at home, and it's always in a more noisy place, so artifacts won't be as audible as just sitting down, relaxed, and listening with a lot of focus.



Interesting...

post #308 of 372

For me lossy codecs ruin the sounds of cymbals/hi-hats in rock music and blend and mush them together.  For real acoustic instruments, that is.  Digitally-made ones such as those in pop, electronic, and rap don't seem to suffer as much. I doubt a digital cymbal has as broad as spectrum as a real acoustic cymbal.

post #309 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

For me lossy codecs ruin the sounds of cymbals/hi-hats in rock music and blend and mush them together.  For real acoustic instruments, that is.  Digitally-made ones such as those in pop, electronic, and rap don't seem to suffer as much. I doubt a digital cymbal has as broad as spectrum as a real acoustic cymbal.



So what codec/bit would suggest....?

post #310 of 372

For lossy or what?

post #311 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

For lossy or what?



Period. Your preference.

post #312 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

The difference between 192 and 320 in MP3 is very audible.  With AAC probably not.  I have my whole FLAC library compressed to 192 AAC for my iPhone.  It sounds fine to me.  I used to use 192 for MP3 and it sounded horrible.


Try LAME!


Edited by Satellite_6 - 12/8/10 at 3:38pm
post #313 of 372

I've moved on to AAC 300k for my collection when space is a constraint (laptop), as I've noticed lack of "space" with LAME MP3s. I have yet to pass an ABX between Nero AAC 300k and FLAC but I can tell 256k LAME MP3 from FLAC under ABX given the right music.

 

My main collection is currently 80.1% FLAC.

post #314 of 372

My preference would be lossless.  It's insane to use a lossy library for PC playback with all of the storage space so cheap anymore.  I don't see how LAME is going to be any better than the creators of MP3.  To me, to change the MP3 algorithm is straying from the standard that was created.  Anyway lossy is inferior.

post #315 of 372

The standard that was created is ancient. . . LAME is definitely superior to FHG. Also, AAC is not significantly better or worse than mp3 according to blind listening tests, and my ears. :-/

 

My preference is also lossless and I have a lossless copy of ALL the music I care about, I only use lossy for DAPs: 320kbps mp3's encoded with LAME + mp3gain. . . 


Edited by Satellite_6 - 12/8/10 at 6:46pm
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