Which better SQ from Oppo as transport? CD ->DAC1 or SACD -> HDMI -> Integra DTC 9.8

I'd go with the CD -> DAC1 combo for a few reasons. The DAC sections in high-end receivers can be very good but still are not at the levels of standalone DACs. Also, in most cases where a DVD player is sending a DSD signal to a receiver, the signal is converted to 24-bit/88.2 kHz PCM. This is a lossy conversion that is not necessary for PCM formats like CD and DVD-Audio.

So, CD -> DAC because the quality of the D/A conversion will cancel out whatever improvements the high-res SACD was supposed to make over the original. But also keep in mind that several hybrid SACDs have a different (and vastly inferior) mastering on the CD layer, for example the hugely popular Dark Side of the Moon SACD.

I'm waiting on a DAC with HDMI, too. I don't know if that'll ever happen, though.

First and foremost, it depends on the mastering of the CD/SACD. Bad mastering jobs trump format, and done right, the SACD of a title should be better than redbook. Not 100%, but it's a good rule to live by.

Having said that, I have the 980H doing DSD over HDMI (I'm not doing a PCM conversion) into my Pioneer receiver and it sounds great.

Well, I have a bunch of equipment. Some I'm selling currently or will be, others I've moved around, and yet others I've bought and returned recently.

I do listen to both stereo and 5.1.

I don't use a DAC. I have the Pioneer VSX-94TXH; this is the main system in my living room and does both music and movie duties. I prefer a more musical system that happens to do movies, too. My fronts and backs are old Frieds that I couldn't afford today as new. The fronts have like a 10" or 12" for the woofer and the backs are bookshelf. I don't do headphone listening.

In the past few weeks, the following have been (or currently are) sources in my system: the Oppo 980H, the Arcam DV139, the Marantz DV9500, the Pioneer DV-58AV, and the Marantz CD5001. I just moved, so I'm re-evaluating my setup (hence the changes).

I've had the DV9500 for years and like it, but since I upgraded to a receiver that supported DSD over HDMI, and my new TV did 1080p, I was looking to possibly replace it. That's where the Arcam came in. It converts DSD to PCM over HDMI. It sounded good, and I also tried CD via its analog outs (also very good), but its video handling ultimately made it a non-match for my system. The Arcam is a wonderful player, but I did not feel it was over $2k good in comparison to the pieces I already owned.

That's when I ordered the 980H since it had all the features I wanted at an insanely cheap price. At the same time, I was in a local store and on Tax free weekend, picked up a DV-58AV. Both the Oppo and Pioneer do DSD over HDMI and sounded equal to me. The Pioneer is a better made machine. Redbook (analog) is an improvement over the 980H (and I didn't break it in long enough), but wasn't different really than my DV9500. So that went back.

As of now, the CD5001 is my redbook player via analog outs and the Oppo handles the digital world for video, SACD, and DVD-A. The Oppo's analog outs are not great IMO. These two make a good setup. I'm looking to possibly do even a bit better than the CD5001, but I'm in no rush per se.

My DV9500 was going to be in my bedroom, but I'm going to sell it to a friend instead.

FOr me, it has nothing to do with SACD, vinyl (which I also have set up), or redbook CD. It's about what music you like and the mastering. Most things are not on SACD, so it's pretty foolish (IMO) to pin your hopes on any one format. I do the best I can for all of them.

I mainly listen to redbook CD or SACD, and a bit of vinyl (mainly stuff not on CD, sounds like crap on CD, etc.).

BTW, if you go for an Oppo, get the 980H. All others convert DSD to PCM over HDMI.

Ah, but I am thinking that the SACD 2-channel layer converted to PCM 24/88.2 then run thru a DAC that can handle this will be superior to the redbook layer of the SACD at 16/44.1 or the non-SACD CD version also at 16/44.1 .

It will be a while, but I am assembling the gear to test this. As a plus, you get SACD rips to your PC this way.

Not necessarily. It's all in the mastering of the CD or SACD. There are no absolutes. For example, I prefer the DCC CD version of Sonny Rollins' Saxophone Colossus to the SACD.

It's about the best source; done right SACD should knock the pants out of redbook even on a marginal player.

I've been dabbling with SACD for a few months now, the main drawback is that I can't rip them to my PC and use my music server.
Soundwise SACD is better than CD, due to the way that the data is stored and the manner in which the D/A works - all those nasty jitter problems that plague RBCD are now gone.
Running DSD via HDMI is a great way to enjoy the sound, don't be fooled by the 'its only an integated AV amp therefore the DAC/Sound etc MUST be poor' as these are dedicated units and there are several that shine even under the audiophile scruitiny. Simply using DSD and SACD will bring a huge improvement over CD, for a fraction of the cost (I have a $2,000 CD player that just collects dust now).
SACD is a funny format, just when you think its dead there comes a bunch of new releases! I listen to lots of Jazz and Classical which is well supported by this format (as well as ProgRock - check out the Genesis boxsets!) but it will be (for me) a 'Sunday Best' listening format -I mean I have to get up out of my chair and put a disc in the player.. goddamm!
Over headphones you need to revert to 2ch, but that still sounds fantastic - Bitches Brew blew my mind when I listened to it a few weeks ago.

BTW (off topic) my favourite 2ch SACD is Peter Gabriel 4 (Security in the USA) absolutly fabulous.. and multichannel Bowies Heathen .. now theres a SACD that sounds like an entirely new album in multichannel, I found the CD version very plain.

The best thing about SACD is that the software can be bought cheap (95% of it) and a decent player with DSD over HDMI is also 'cheap as chips' so all in all a pretty decent low cost route to audiophillia.

BT

Very helpful comments, everyone.

I am going to rip SACD to my hard drive. And DVD-A too. I have just ordered the Audiopraise Vanity board. This is too good to be true.

Tests and details later.

Audiopraise Vanity :: High Resolution Digital Output for CD/SACD/DVD-Audio


is2us -- when it is all set up, maybe 2 months, we'll have a mini meet at my house to do some serious A/B and blind testing ... I hope Matt (malldian) and John (md1032) and some of the other Jersey die hards can come. We'll test high-bit rates, SACD thru HDMI vs these rips, etc. Since you're moving here, ya gotta meet everyone ... Fun!!

YOu can't rip SACD to hard drive as is. That board allows you to convert the output to LPCM (and a lot of players - including the Oppo - will convert DSD to PCM for your receiver).

So you're not really ripping the SACD; you're getting a PCM representation of it.

Yes I agree with you. But at least it is high res, and presented on a digital output cable that I can record from.

Using the Oppo it is either analog, or on the HDMI -- no use!

For DVD-A's, I think the story is better. They are native 24/192 I believe, and I should capture that exactly.

Anyway, can't wait to try the Vanity board in a modded Pioneer high-end CDP, over a decent digital cable into a very top quality digital capture board for the PC.

Hopefully then I can put the physical SACD or DVD-A away on the shelf, and build the tracks I like into playlists, etc. on the PC.

I sure hope it sounds better than the redbook layer of the SACD, or I have wasted a lot of time and money!