Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Cables.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cables. - Page 2

post #16 of 61
In my opinion and experience I tend to think that in the vast majority of systems, cable differences will not be audible. And even if they are, the vast majority of people would not be able to hear them due to there ears, training of perceptions.

For the people that can hear it, in the systems that do show it, the debate looks.... well, depends on the person and there perspective I guess. Doesn't bother me but I know why some get offended.

It's all synergy, and I have heard some thousands of dollars worth of system where I couldn't hear cable swaps, and some hundreds of dollars worth where I could, and vice versa.

If I had only heard those "thousands of dollars" systems, I would obviously conclude that cables are inaudible.

I can't explain why they do a difference, and it's not my job to.

Just my experience.
post #17 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbiker1 View Post
At this point, I think cables are the chrome rims of the audio world- they just make your gear a little more flashy and personalized, which is fine, but I'm sick of people trying to convince me their $1000 power cable makes a huge difference when it sounds exactly the same to me.
Quoted for the MF'in truth!
post #18 of 61

It's all black and white. And red. And Yellow. And Violet...

If the wire has enough cross-sectional area, and good mechanical connections, then that's it. Beyond that, I'm going to be in the skeptical side, where I might not hear a difference if there was one. I just don't see how, with a good mechanical connection, and corrosion-free connectors, you're going to make any real change, unless the equipment is poorly designed (such that the load of driving the cable is hard).

So, I've heard differences in cables (I've yet to buy a cable already made, by itself, though, so this is all cheap OEM or custom made by me), use mostly freebie cables (came with cheap equipment that didn't need them), and don't believe in anything beyond a good connection from point A to point B. I admit, however, that if there are genuine positive differences that are simply difficult to measure, I would likely be blinded to them by this thinking, due to being bombarded by super-expensive cables that just seem like ridiculous money drainers. Likewise, I'm never going to spend enough on a cable to find out how much the cost has an effect, since I look at them, and think, "I can make a slightly uglier one for 1/10th the cost, maybe even less. Forget about buying that crap."
post #19 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerbie View Post
If the wire has enough cross-sectional area, and good mechanical connections, then that's it. Beyond that, I'm going to be in the skeptical side, where I might not hear a difference if there was one. I just don't see how, with a good mechanical connection, and corrosion-free connectors, you're going to make any real change, unless the equipment is poorly designed (such that the load of driving the cable is hard).

So, I've heard differences in cables (I've yet to buy a cable already made, by itself, though, so this is all cheap OEM or custom made by me), use mostly freebie cables (came with cheap equipment that didn't need them), and don't believe in anything beyond a good connection from point A to point B. I admit, however, that if there are genuine positive differences that are simply difficult to measure, I would likely be blinded to them by this thinking, due to being bombarded by super-expensive cables that just seem like ridiculous money drainers. Likewise, I'm never going to spend enough on a cable to find out how much the cost has an effect, since I look at them, and think, "I can make a slightly uglier one for 1/10th the cost, maybe even less. Forget about buying that crap."
I'm not so sure about cross sectional area:





USG
post #20 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminette View Post
I caught differences between a stock cabled pair of Edition 9s and APS V3 recabled Edition 9s with ease

And this was using an iMod

I'm not going to go against what I hear - these changes reached out and slapped me in the face

I feel like my case could/would be argued and done simply by putting both pairs of cans on your head
What if there were differences between the two pairs of headphones themselves - not differences induced by cables?

My own experience teached me that there are (sometimes) significant differences between different units of the same headphone model.

Some Sennheiser 600 sound better than other Sennheiser 600, some Grado RS1 sound better than other Grado RS1... why not some Ultrasone Edition 9 sounding better than other Ultrasone Edition 9?
post #21 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Welcome to the forum wnmnkh...

Keep up the good work.

Some tests that are being discussed in the Placebo thread:

Masters and Clark Study

Richard Clark says over a couple thousand people have taken the test, and nobody has passed

One might think that if you can't tell amps apart, wires are a non issue.....

There's always coat hangers.......

USG
I am writing about headphone amplifiers as well. But it will take some time to finish.

Thank you for these interesting tests!
post #22 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnmnkh View Post
(Internal connection; if you see K701 manual, you will find out that the cable is connected via molex connector and very tiny cable) and they are not made of silver (or more expensive and exotic) cable for most of case. They are all use plain copper (or even cheaper materials)
Interesting. I would imagine that if companies would offer that with the rest of their recable option it would be very "marketable."
post #23 of 61

Deep down, I'd love to see Quaddy and Bigshot to get into it in here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
I'm not so sure about cross sectional area:
(images)
USG
I'm not saying I think a thin cable is wrong. Merely that diameter ranges should be measurable properties for given performance criteria. For short audio line-level ICs with some kind of twisst or braids, a hair's width could be big enough, for all I know.

My primary points were that controlling for, "good enough," should be important (a DAC with a crap output stage that is sensitive to cable loads might make it seem like cables are able to make a difference, where one properly implemented sounds the same with any cable that can move electrons), and also to put in a devil's advocate word for the slim possibility of placebo affect against hearing differences in cables, should such a difference exist independent of deficiencies at the ends of the cable.
post #24 of 61
OK, Guys..... Cables make a difference to. me! The Clou Senn Cable is way better then the stock 580 cable. I have an Oyaide L/i15 C7 hooked up to my Cd player and it rocks! I have swapped a few power cables to my Darkvoice Figaro and I can tell the difference between each one. OK, I listen to my gear for hours everday ( ask my wife!). If you are not very familiar with your system, you may not be familiar with the nuances of every little thing. Just my 2 cents!
post #25 of 61
Grab a good recording (jazz, classical), test on your own system, close all lights, sit on a good chair, close your eyes and don't try listen anything in particular. Just listen music and relax.

After 20 min, change your cable ... you will probably grab the subtilities.

If not, the interconnect are probably close in sonority or your system is probably poor resolving.

HD580 cable vs HD650 cable, you should be able to catch the subtilities very very very fast! 8-) It's another world! 8-)
post #26 of 61
I've been listening to my system a good 6hours or so. And from time to time I will change something just to see if I can notice it and I do.
post #27 of 61
Have you and your wife done blind tests?
post #28 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post
OK, Guys..... Cables make a difference to. me! The Clou Senn Cable is way better then the stock 580 cable. I have an Oyaide L/i15 C7 hooked up to my Cd player and it rocks! I have swapped a few power cables to my Darkvoice Figaro and I can tell the difference between each one. OK, I listen to my gear for hours everday ( ask my wife!). If you are not very familiar with your system, you may not be familiar with the nuances of every little thing. Just my 2 cents!
Hi BP

Allow me to play devil's advocate.

If you read the studies concerning the amplifiers tests, you will see that differences between amps were heard, noted and written down while the subjects were allowed to freely listen to the amps with the knowledge of what they were listening to, but once the names of the amps were concealed, these "noted differences" faded to nothing more than 50 - 50 guesses. I am going to suggest that this has been your experience.

Furthermore, Clark states that in the thousands of tests he has administered in his $10,000 challenge, no one has ever passed the test and collected the money.....

His subjects were not able to reliably tell the difference between a $219.95 Pioneer amplifier and a 12 thousand dollar set of Futterman monoblocks.

So, if under test conditions, you can't tell the difference between these amplifiers, and the difference between amplifiers has to be greater than the difference between wires, the wires become a non issue.

Now you could take issue with the last part of that statement, but unless you want to say that interconnects and power cords have a greater influence, on the over all sound, than amplifiers, I don't think you will.

To bring this discussion home, I have listened to Ray's switch box on more than one occasion and have not been able to reliably differentiate between amps unless I knew which amp I was listening to.... and that was not an ABX box.

USG
post #29 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by malldian View Post
Have you and your wife done blind tests?
OH YEAH......... That's why we are married!
post #30 of 61
Screw the studies, if you can tell the difference in your system....... That is all that matters! Any Head-fier is more than welcome in my home to test drive a few cables. We are in the same cause... Sound between our ears, nothing more.... NOTHING LESS!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Cables.