Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › Do China lied about their gymnast age?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Do China lied about their gymnast age? - Page 11

post #151 of 165
8/28/08 at 3:05pm
Well, did they lie about here age or not.
Reply
post #152 of 165
8/28/08 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nysulli View Post
Drbenway, the thing is, the vast majority of colleges do see that their athletes graduate, I know, I was an athlete in college.
I respect your opinion and your experience. But if we are talking about schools that compete at the highest level in basketball and football, I'm deeply skeptical. There are, of course, schools like Stanford that seem to have it both ways, but I believe they are the exceptions. Stanford always seems to be the go-to example that people in the industry point to when they are challenged.

Remember UNLV during the Tarkanian era?

As for kids who wouldn't have gone to college if not for sports, the question is, why did they then? Other people were denied the seats that they occupied, or would have, if they were serous about academics. Academic institutions make the weakest possible attempts to recruit kids from underprivileged backgrounds who don't happen to have world-class speed or a good jump shot.

There are plenty of bright non-athletes who would kill for a college education, but don't have the opportunities that wealthier applicants are handed at birth. I don't see colleges and universities seeking out these kids and giving them the extra help they need to succeed. Instead they devote those resources to keeping their athletes eligible. I just think that is wrong.

In the end, it's all about money from TV nets and mindless alumni.
Reply
post #153 of 165
8/28/08 at 5:57pm
Some graduation rates for athletes...

ESPN - Grad rates increase slightly for Division I schools - College Sports

"As usual, men's basketball, football and baseball were the lowest-ranked sports."

...where the big money is.

NCAA Graduation-Rates Report
Reply
post #154 of 165
8/28/08 at 6:13pm
Interesting. I looked at Ohio State since it's a big sports school. 62% graduation rate of student athletes, 71% graduation rate of all students. So student athletes aren't that much worse than all students.
Reply
post #155 of 165
8/28/08 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
Interesting. I looked at Ohio State since it's a big sports school. 62% graduation rate of student athletes, 71% graduation rate of all students. So student athletes aren't that much worse than all students.
I'd be interested in the figure for the major, televised sports at Ohio State. I'm not surprised by high graduation rates for athletes in sports that don't generate enormous revenue. I'd love to know what the graduation rates among first and second team football and basketball players are.
Reply
post #156 of 165
8/28/08 at 6:56pm
Northwestern University - Division I athletics - and people who go there graduate there.

It is one of our sources of sports pride.

We don't lower our standards as a top academic institute, our athletes graduate, and we still do well.

GO U! If any other NU fans wanna meet at the game on Saturday - I am up for it
Reply
post #157 of 165
8/28/08 at 6:57pm
I'm pretty sure the 2nd link in Blitzula shows it. I'm not sure how to interpret the chart for individual sports. It has A title of the sport and Freshman Graduation Rate. Then it has three columns 00-01, 4-Class, and GSR. The rows are broken down by race, with a total. For football, it has 48% from 00-01 and 4-Class and 53% for GSR. Men's basket ball has 67%, 27%, and 40%. It's on page 2 of http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2007/518.pdf

I just looked up one of the colleges I went to and the student athlete graduation rate is higher. Division III school though, except hockey.
Reply
post #158 of 165
8/28/08 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nysulli View Post
Drbenway, the thing is, the vast majority of colleges do see that their athletes graduate, I know, I was an athlete in college, 20 hours of mandatory study hall every week unless you were over a 3.0 gpa, coaches are typically up your ass if you aren't holding up to your end of the deal with classes, if for no other reason then professors or the athletic director asking why X work isn't being done, of why your GPA has fallen dangerously close to the minimum to play (not that this happen to me)

sure there are some cases that are made public where the kids are pushed through because of their ability, but its like anything else in life, you get out what you put in, and for every person who for one reason or another is allowed to skate through college as an athlete without doing the work, there are 10 who use their ability to get into a school they otherwise were on the edge of getting into, or to help pay for school, or simply for the love of the game. As a whole, college sports are beneficial in many ways, even to some of those who do skate through without doing the work, think about the fact that some if not many of them wouldn't have gone to college in the first place if it wasn't for their athletic ability.
Exactly.

Things have changed in schools. Not 20 years ago, schools could still paddle kids. If you're just squeeking by, you can bet the coach is squeaking up your butt.

Charters for frats and sororities are CRAZY now a days...mandatory everything. College is a different world now as compared to how it was when my sisters went through in the 90's...the fricken NINETIES for christs sake.
Reply
post #159 of 165
8/28/08 at 7:31pm
As usual I have no clue on how this thread has changed direction toward university sports figures graduation rates....

Amicalement

Edit:
But as a member of the university culture I might add that these guys ( the sports icons ) were probably not the ones that were fighting with me for the head of my class... In short, there is very few med students quarterback...:-)
Reply
post #160 of 165
8/28/08 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
I'm pretty sure the 2nd link in Blitzula shows it. I'm not sure how to interpret the chart for individual sports. It has A title of the sport and Freshman Graduation Rate. Then it has three columns 00-01, 4-Class, and GSR. The rows are broken down by race, with a total. For football, it has 48% from 00-01 and 4-Class and 53% for GSR. Men's basket ball has 67%, 27%, and 40%. It's on page 2 of http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/inst2007/518.pdf

I just looked up one of the colleges I went to and the student athlete graduation rate is higher. Division III school though, except hockey.
00-01 is the 6 year graduation rate for that the '00 entering freshman class.

4-class is the average 6 year graduation rate for the '00-97 freshman classes.

GSR is the "Graduation Success Rate". It includes the 4 class group adds transfers in and subtracts transfers out, allowable exclusions (deaths, army, etc), and students who left but would still be academically eligible to play if they returned the next year.

Generally speaking, the athletes in the low/no money sports do just as well or better than the general college student population. Schools don't significantly lower their standards to admit them and most of them are highly motivated types with better than average resources when it comes to educational success. It's the big money sports, men's basketball and football, where the standards are significantly lowered and graduation rates suffer in schools that don't provide support for their student athletes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oicdn
Urban Mayor is a HUGE advocate of putting out "smart players". Don't blame an industry based on what little knowledge you know which is based upon what the media portrays.
UF is actually a great example of poor football graduation rates. As the current numbers stand, UF's football graduation rate (35%) is abysmal compared to FSU's (79%) and UM's (53%).

As for Urban Meyer, the jury's still out on that. He hasn't been around long enough for the players drafted under the first years of his reign to end their eligibility.
Reply
post #161 of 165
8/28/08 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin View Post
UF is actually a great example of poor football graduation rates. As the current numbers stand, UF's football graduation rate (35%) is abysmal compared to FSU's (79%) and UM's (53%).

As for Urban Meyer, the jury's still out on that. He hasn't been around long enough for the players drafted under the first years of his reign to end their eligibility.
Probably true, and I wouldn't doubt it.

I was more or less arguing the point that college athletes don't just skim through because of money like was stated in this post. The requirements are pretty stiff now as they were compared to "the good ol' days"...
Reply
post #162 of 165
8/28/08 at 9:37pm
Yes, well...back to our original topic.

Looks like the "investigation" is pretty much over at this point. Like I said, it comes down to official papers, and if the government is essentially in on it...
Reply
post #163 of 165
8/29/08 at 9:33am
and thats where the problem comes in, its not just a singular team issue, its a problem with the countries view on the Olympics as a whole, to my eyes its a great sign of disrespect, and while its hard for the olympic committee to do much of anything about it, the repercussions would need to extend past the gymnastics team, to the Chinese team as a whole, which is really a shame to the athlete's in China that have played by the rules, but their backing government has shown the willingness to break the rules so whats stopping them from doing it again

what bothers me is that if the United states was caught up in the same fishy circumstances, there would be a world outcry over it, yet when its the Chinese, who cares, its not a big deal
Reply
post #164 of 165
8/29/08 at 6:58pm
^^^ maybe we ought to stop the "only we (USA) matter" attitude first.
Reply
post #165 of 165
8/29/08 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nysulli View Post
what bothers me is that if the United states was caught up in the same fishy circumstances, there would be a world outcry over it, yet when its the Chinese, who cares, its not a big deal
The US has been sharing its load of bad PR but it's not even funny how the media is just fishing for bad news from China. Seriously, at least spread the bad PR about the real problems. But wait, people just want to hear simplistic gossip anyway. Who cares about constructive dialogue.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › Do China lied about their gymnast age?