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post #136 of 170
8/30/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
USG & KW,
This is a post just for ideas...
... how I first discovered the difference between mp3's of various bitrate and lossless was by ripping a cd into different formats and just clicking on one after the other(very quickly over and over) in iTunes to hear the difference in the first few seconds of my favorite tune.
I hear you. Depending upon what you're listening for, rapid A/B or extended listening to each is very helpful.
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post #137 of 170
8/30/08 at 10:11pm
OK, I have some software to record on my laptop, and of course a digital recording interface. What kind of mics do I need to record my headphones with, something affordable and accurate?
What I want to do is see if there is a difference in the recorded waveforms from different interconnects.

It is time to proceed with visible measurements of the audible differences.
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post #138 of 170
8/30/08 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
OK, I have some software to record on my laptop, and of course a digital recording interface. What kind of mics do I need to record my headphones with, something affordable and accurate?
What I want to do is see if there is a difference in the recorded waveforms from different interconnects.

It is time to proceed with visible measurements of the audible differences.
You're going to have to tell us more about what you have in mind and what you want to achieve. Once I have a better idea of what you're after, I might be able to do a better job of recommending suitable mics, preamps, etc.
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post #139 of 170
8/31/08 at 12:53pm
kw,
What I had in mind was to set up a complete rig and record the headphones. Then, without touching anything else in the rig, just change the rca to rca interconnect and record again. I can magnify the recorded sound to better than one thousandth of a second using Cakewalk Pyro, and look at the waveforms of the two recording to see if there is any obvious visible difference. Maybe superimpose one recording on top of the other so the differences are immediately noticable.

The interconnects I will use are a 19.5 inch ALO Cryo 18ga. and a cheap Rad Shack "unidirectional" timed interconnect. I may also throw in others down the road, just want to start somewhere, so I can learn more. I have also considered using Wavepad software.

Do you think I could get these mics I need to record with for less than $150 for the pair?

EDIT: Better testing methods/software, etc. will evolve as we go and gain the valuable input of others here.
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post #140 of 170
8/31/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
kw,
What I had in mind was to set up a complete rig and record the headphones. Then, without touching anything else in the rig, just change the rca to rca interconnect and record again. I can magnify the recorded sound to better than one thousandth of a second using Cakewalk Pyro, and look at the waveforms of the two recording to see if there is any obvious visible difference. Maybe superimpose one recording on top of the other so the differences are immediately noticable.

The interconnects I will use are a 19.5 inch ALO Cryo 18ga. and a cheap Rad Shack "unidirectional" timed interconnect. I may also throw in others down the road, just want to start somewhere, so I can learn more. I have also considered using Wavepad software.

Do you think I could get these mics I need to record with for less than $150 for the pair?

EDIT: Better testing methods/software, etc. will evolve as we go and gain the valuable input of others here.
I think I'm still confused. What are the headphones for, in this test?
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post #141 of 170
8/31/08 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post

OK, I have some software to record on my laptop, and of course a digital recording interface. What kind of mics do I need to record my headphones with, something affordable and accurate?
What I want to do is see if there is a difference in the recorded waveforms from different interconnects.

It is time to proceed with visible measurements of the audible differences.
Just a thought: What mic cables are you going to be using?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post
"Party line?" I have no party line, and I offer no excuses.

"Magic" cables? What's magic about them, or am I missing something intended to be funny?

I can't disagree with the gist of what you've said in this post, however your bias seems to be hanging out. I have no bias. I can either a difference or I can't. If I can't demonstrate the repeatability of what I hear, then I don't really hear it. It's pretty much that cut and dried. I've done enough simple single blind testing to know without a shadow of a doubt that given the right conditions, cable differences are quite discernible. If the ABX box had no impact on the sound, I would have no objection to it being present in a test.
I'll be the first in line to agree with you that good does not have to equate to expensive and vice versa.
IOU a reply KW.

USG
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post #142 of 170
8/31/08 at 2:40pm
As I read, skim, learn and re-read all over anything about audio-cabling, even more skeptical I become about certain things. Especially power cables, and the [seemingly] ridiculous claims on SQ improvement.

As much money, [especially] time and effort I've put into this hobby thus far my instinct tells me so. It just makes me want to voluntarily be a guinea pig, buy a couple of 'em for my source/amp, bring in 10 friends to my apartment and conduct a blind test on different times of day (while bearing in mind that almost none of them know better than the ipod>ibud/bose).

As even keeled as I am, products like this screams "Are you kidding me!?" >>
Denon's $500 Ethernet cable If there was ever a CAT5/6 cable that reduced latency...

Why am I swaying in this direction?
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post #143 of 170
8/31/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akabeth View Post
As I read, skim, learn and re-read all over anything about audio-cabling, even more skeptical I become about certain things. Especially power cables, and the [seemingly] ridiculous claims on SQ improvement.

As much money, [especially] time and effort I've put into this hobby thus far my instinct tells me so. It just makes me want to voluntarily be a guinea pig, buy a couple of 'em for my source/amp, bring in 10 friends to my apartment and conduct a blind test on different times of day (while bearing in mind that almost none of them know better than the ipod>ibud/bose).

As even keeled as I am, products like this screams "Are you kidding me!?" >>
Denon's $500 Ethernet cable If there was ever a CAT5/6 cable that reduced latency...

Why am I swaying in this direction?
$500 ethernet cable? That's just crazy, and the only reason it can't be called criminal is because people have to voluntarily throw their money away.
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post #144 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Just a thought: What mic cables are you going to be using?

USG
I knew you would ask that It doesn't matter right now, I just want to see a measurable difference in two supposedly different IC's, just within my own rig for now.
Basically I just want to get the ball rolling.
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post #145 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
I knew you would ask that It doesn't matter right now, I just want to see a measurable difference in two supposedly different IC's, just within my own rig for now.
Basically I just want to get the ball rolling.
Digger,
If you're interested in resolving differences between line level IC's then you don't want anything more potential obfuscation in your signal chain than you have to have. That being the case, loose the headphones, loose the mics, forget about all of that and attach your measurement device to the line level output of your amp.
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post #146 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post
I think I'm still confused. What are the headphones for, in this test?
Well, I think that in order to be faithful to the title of the thread, I should record what is being played through my headphones, once using IC a and once using IC b, then analyze the waveforms of the two recordings to see if the actual waveforms are somehow different from one another, the difference being imparted/hindered by the IC.
Two recordings on the exact same rig, I don't touch anything or change anything, just the interconnect between the source and amp.
I want to put the mics in front of the HP drivers so I get the overall effect, if any, of the whole system(rig).
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post #147 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post
Digger,
If you're interested in resolving differences between line level IC's then you don't want anything more potential obfuscation in your signal chain than you have to have. That being the case, loose the headphones, loose the mics, forget about all of that and attach your measurement device to the line level output of your amp.
I think we are on two different boats, but when we get to the same dock, look out!!!!

obfuscation, I love that word.
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post #148 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
I think we are on two different boats, but when we get to the same dock, look out!!!!

obfuscation, I love that word.
Seriously, the more "stuff" you have in the chain, the more "distortions" you'll have to "see" through in order to measure whatever it is that you're trying to measure. This makes a HUGE difference!
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post #149 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post
Well, I think that in order to be faithful to the title of the thread, I should record what is being played through my headphones, once using IC a and once using IC b, then analyze the waveforms of the two recordings to see if the actual waveforms are somehow different from one another, the difference being imparted/hindered by the IC.
Two recordings on the exact same rig, I don't touch anything or change anything, just the interconnect between the source and amp.
I want to put the mics in front of the HP drivers so I get the overall effect, if any, of the whole system(rig).
What is it you're going to attempt to measure?
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post #150 of 170
8/31/08 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post
What is it you're going to attempt to measure?
I think he is right.
He is measuring the sound as you would hear it from your phones and looking for the differences in situation a and b.
If you take away the phones and measure the output of your amp you would get the discussion about the difference you measure are audible or not.
If a mic picks it up from your phones it is safe to assume it is audible.
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