Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › High Quality USB Cable for USB DAC?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

High Quality USB Cable for USB DAC? - Page 8  

post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik View Post
I
I want to get usb audio to sound as good or better than my cd player because I much prefer the convenience of playing music on my computer, but so far I haven't been able to get the audio quality there yet.
I'm with you, Mik.
post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by daglesj View Post
You know what I think your problem is? Its not the gear. No, not the gear.

It's you.

You are trying soooo hard to listen to the hardware, you are forgetting the most important part. Just listening to the tunes instead. You are worrying about stuff that really isnt that important and its spoiling your enjoyment.

Its not your fault, you've been told that this kind of thing should happen, mainly by people who sell $800 digital cables and $2000 DACs.

There is a huge difference. Once you listen to the music rather then the hardware it sounds 1000000 times better.

There is no better upgrade or tweak. And its free.
thats fair enough, but this is an audiophiles forum as well, and the term audiophile doesnt mean someone who just listens to the music, it entails all the kit and kaboodle also.

all this i enjoy immensely.
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaddy View Post
thats fair enough, but this is an audiophiles forum as well, and the term audiophile doesnt mean someone who just listens to the music, it entails all the kit and kaboodle also.

all this i enjoy immensely.
Yes but there is a big difference between enjoying the kit and always worrying about it and feeling its in some way deficient and therefore ruining everything.

By all means feel the need to think an upgrade is needed from time to time but some folks let it become all encompassing.

The ultimate aim after all is to enjoy the music.

If it isnt then time to find a new hobby.
post #109 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by daglesj View Post
You know what I think your problem is? Its not the gear. No, not the gear.

It's you.

You are trying soooo hard to listen to the hardware, you are forgetting the most important part. Just listening to the tunes instead. You are worrying about stuff that really isnt that important and its spoiling your enjoyment.
If you don't care about better audio, why are you on head-fi? I consider the music coming from my cd player to sound much better than from my computer. Even so, 99% of the audio I listen to comes from my computer because it's much more convenient. I can assure you I enjoy listening to music on my computer, and have been doing so long before there were mp3s. I also think it's reasonable to try to improve things when they're not as good as I know they can be. I enjoy that part too. This is a hobby after all.
post #110 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik View Post
If you don't care about better audio, why are you on head-fi? I consider the music coming from my cd player to sound much better than from my computer. Even so, 99% of the audio I listen to comes from my computer because it's much more convenient. I can assure you I enjoy listening to music on my computer, and have been doing so long before there were mp3s. I also think it's reasonable to try to improve things when they're not as good as I know they can be. I enjoy that part too. This is a hobby after all.
In that case thats fine...it read quite different to me.

I do think sometimes its a good thing to remember why it is we do this rather than just the kit.
post #111 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
And what difference does it make? In the case of a HDD the data is stored in an on-board buffer before being written to the disk and in an audio output device the data is stored in an on-board buffer before being sent to the PLL and then on to the DAC.

G
My previous comment was in response to you comparing the transfer of data between USB HDDs and USB audio devices. The two kinds of transfer specifications are very different.

What you have mentioned is a system whereby data is stored in a buffer before being 'reclocked' and sent to the DAC. This is only present in relatively expensive DACs. Try reading this article for more info on how a USB receiver works : The D/A diaries: A personal memoir of engineering heartache and triumph

On a side note, I am just writing this from a technological standpoint because many people have misconceptions on the common implementations in USB DACs. Personally, I feel that spending excessively on an 'audiophile' grade USB cable is silly because the money spent can be used to upgrade other components of the system, resulting in more perceivable improvement.
post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly19 View Post
No one has yet mentioned the Locus Design uber USB cable, the Nucleus. $1150 for 3 feet.
The best USB cable on the planet IMO. Locus-Design knows what they are doing for sure.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
post #113 of 128
The difference between a cheap USB cable performance and a really good USB cable performance is the amount of jitter that it adds. Jitter is added through several mechanisms:

1) losses
2) Inter-symbol interference (ISI)
3) reflections due to impedance discontinuities

All of these have an effect at the USB receiver.

Now, whether or not this affects the audio stream depends on the USB interface. If it is an optimally implemented Asynchronous or block-transfer protocol, then the jitter does not matter. It is buffered at the receiver just like a disk drive or printer. The master clock is in the receiving device.

However, if it is a Adaptive-mode USB protocol, then it is sensitive to the jitter as this is passed through a PLL that recovers the clock. The master clock from the computer is used. The USB cable will have an effect in this case.

This does not mean that one USB protocol will necessarily sound a lot better than the other. All three USB modes be excellent, with jitter on the threshold of audibility. The ultimate performance depends on the clock quality and implementation.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioengr View Post
The difference between a cheap USB cable performance and a really good USB cable performance is the amount of jitter that it adds. Jitter is added through several mechanisms:

1) losses
2) Inter-symbol interference (ISI)
3) reflections due to impedance discontinuities

All of these have an effect at the USB receiver.

Now, whether or not this affects the audio stream depends on the USB interface. If it is an optimally implemented Asynchronous or block-transfer protocol, then the jitter does not matter. It is buffered at the receiver just like a disk drive or printer. The master clock is in the receiving device.

However, if it is a Adaptive-mode USB protocol, then it is sensitive to the jitter as this is passed through a PLL that recovers the clock. The master clock from the computer is used. The USB cable will have an effect in this case.

This does not mean that one USB protocol will necessarily sound a lot better than the other. All three USB modes be excellent, with jitter on the threshold of audibility. The ultimate performance depends on the clock quality and implementation.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Jitter on the threshold of audibility, what are you talking about? I've never read such rubbish. I take it you have proof of this and jitter measurements for the cable you are peddling with comparisons of the jitter caused by cheaper cable?

I would also like you to explain how reflections in the USB cable are going to have any audible impact on sound quality whatsoever.

Perhaps you'd like to explain how a PLL recovers the clock from the computer, rather than the originating ADC or masterclock. And while you're at it explain how a PLL does not reject the jitter caused during digital transfer, in whatever USB mode.

I don't know what your three points above refer to but it's nothing to do with digital audio, it's complete nonsense. I would have hoped that you had seen the error of your ways when Dan Lavry destroyed your arguments and exposed you as the charlatan you are. Instead, you've decided to come here to try to fool the consumers as the professionals saw right through you.

If it were up to me I'd have people like you fined or imprisoned for spouting pseudo scientific BS in a deliberate attempt to mis-lead consumers into buying your stupidly priced cable which have no benefits whatsoever, except to your bank balance.

I look forward to your answers to my questions above but we both know that you will do or say anything to avoid answering with accurate facts and figures.

G
post #115 of 128
Here we go again......the FUDmeister strikes back!
post #116 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
Jitter on the threshold of audibility, what are you talking about? I've never read such rubbish. I take it you have proof of this and jitter measurements for the cable you are peddling with comparisons of the jitter caused by cheaper cable?

I would also like you to explain how reflections in the USB cable are going to have any audible impact on sound quality whatsoever.

Perhaps you'd like to explain how a PLL recovers the clock from the computer, rather than the originating ADC or masterclock. And while you're at it explain how a PLL does not reject the jitter caused during digital transfer, in whatever USB mode.

I don't know what your three points above refer to but it's nothing to do with digital audio, it's complete nonsense. I would have hoped that you had seen the error of your ways when Dan Lavry destroyed your arguments and exposed you as the charlatan you are. Instead, you've decided to come here to try to fool the consumers as the professionals saw right through you.

If it were up to me I'd have people like you fined or imprisoned for spouting pseudo scientific BS in a deliberate attempt to mis-lead consumers into buying your stupidly priced cable which have no benefits whatsoever, except to your bank balance.

I look forward to your answers to my questions above but we both know that you will do or say anything to avoid answering with accurate facts and figures.

G
funny that, i posed a question to you earlier on another thread, i re-emphasized it twice, you blatantly ignored it, because it suited you to do so, because i guess (as it hasnt been clarified) that you had zero experience with the cables you were trashing or claiming to speak for

pot and kettle!!

perhaps you would do well to go here inbetween all your slander and OTT personal attacks.

gregorio spouted: "If it were up to me I'd have people like you fined or imprisoned"...

...calm down dear, its just a commercial!
post #117 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaddy View Post
funny that, i posed a question to you earlier on another thread, i re-emphasized it twice, you blatantly ignored it, because it suited you to do so, because i guess (as it hasnt been clarified) that you had zero experience with the cables you were trashing or claiming to speak for

pot and kettle!!

perhaps you would do well to go here inbetween all your slander and OTT personal attacks.

gregorio spouted: "If it were up to me I'd have people like you fined or imprisoned"...

...calm down dear, its just a commercial!
Here we go! Get your facts straight, I replied to your question on page 64 of that thread, so don't go insulting me because you can't read or can't be bothered.

I'm really sorry that you can't tell the difference between someone challenging the claims of a retailer and someone who is a retailer. I've got no products to sell and no reason to convince anyone of anything, beyond getting the truth or exposing a lie. This retailer (Steve N) has been caught on various professional audio forums peddling false information in a blatant attempt to sell bogus products.

If you think what I said was slanderous then prove it! Of course, at the same time you would have to prove slander against Dan Lavry and a whole bunch of other industry professionals, or didn't you bother to read my quote from Dan Lavry on page 7 of this thread?

If you can't tell the difference between what I'm doing and what Steve N is doing, either you are a scam artist yourself or you don't care if head-fi members get scammed. Either way, you are a waste of space.

Please tell me this isn't true and that you've just mis-understood this thread and my intentions!

G
post #118 of 128

No difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by ath1337 View Post
Does anyone know if it's worth buy a "high" quality USB cable to connect a PC/Laptop to USB DAC? I'm looking for a cable to connect an EMU 0202 USB to my laptop. I read somewhere that the best USB cable you can buy is the Tricon USB by Synergistic Research, but they aren't available online, there is no price listed, and the store locater does not work (I don't know what the big secret is?). It's probably too expensive anyway (My guess is around $100).

What about the Belkin Home Theater USB 2.0 Cable? Belkin

or Monster Cable Performance Digital USB 2.0 Audio Cable Buy Monster Cable Performance Digital USB 2.0 Audio Cable at Musician's Friend

Does anyone know if these have any different cables have any effect on the audio quality?
My brother is a Professional Engineer (Electrical) and is a design consultant for several well known electronic OEMs (over 10 years of experience) and based on his recommendation, there is NO difference as a USB cable (like an HDMI cable) carries a digital signal. There would be a difference for analog cables like RCA cables.

So go with the cheapest you can find that won't fall apart.

Cheers.
post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioengr View Post
3) reflections due to impedance discontinuities

All of these have an effect at the USB receiver.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Know what, Steve? I went ahead and bent one of my usb cables sharply. No audible effect despite "reflections in the cable".
If anyone else can hear a difference due to bending usb cables, I'd be glad to hear about that.
post #120 of 128
@defective, i hope you are joking, as impedance has nothing to do with the physical angle of a cable per say.

@gregorio, i like how if someone is of a different opinion to you, you term them "as a waste of space" and that i am a "scam artist" for having my own opinion, thats a great community ethos you bring, you seem to get personal a lot and rather quickly.

i think my feedback and credentials at this site more than speak for themselves, and i dont take kindly to being called names by someone who likes to shutdown debate so quickly with immature and counter-productive labelling.

so please take your own advice, and: "don't go insulting me because you can't read or can't be bothered"

your 'tests' with borrowed valhalla speaker cable sound interesting, where can we all see the review and comparison of this cable and how it fared against all the other high end cables you have used but conveniently cannot remember the names of?

'Q'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Audio
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › High Quality USB Cable for USB DAC?