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Maxed WA6 SE vs Zana Deux vs ?

post #1 of 17
8/14/08 at 7:34am
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I have a similar post in the amp section, but am not getting much feedback.

I was wondering if any of the "high-end" owners could help me out.

A few months back I began the process of switching most of my listening to headphones (mostly due to noise contraints).

I upgraded my Grado 125s to RS-1s, dusted off my seldom used X-CAN V3 (with X-PSU V3) and started listening. To be honest, I was disappointed. Mid range was oddly muffled and overal sound seemed harsh. Some posting here on head-fi helped me with the decision to change my van den hul first ultimate interconnect for chord chorus 2, this helped with the mids, but sound still a bit harsh for my tastes. I soon had the desire to try out some tube amps and recently purchased a darkvoice 336 SE. Probably in error, it came without any tubes so I picked up some RCA Grey Plate 6AS7Gs and Sylvania 6SN7GTBs on eBay. I have also ordered some Senn HD650s as, after demoing them, I think I will have 2 headphones that will cover most types of music (I find RS-1s wonderfully musical, but a bit bright for some music/recordings, 650s not quite so musical - still v good - but more laid back/warm - so much more comfortable too).

My set-up is now:

Sugden Masterclass CDP
Chord Chorus 2 interconnect
Darkvoice 336 SE amp
Grado RS-1 headphones/ Senn HD650 headphones

I really love the general sound of the darkvoice and think tubes are the way to go for me. However, I freely admit that the 336 is a bit of a lateral move from the X-CAN/X-PSU combo, different sound, similar SQ.

I'm not a huge fan of endlessly upgrading and tinkering with kit, so am now looking to buy a headphone amp that will last me for several years. I don't intend to change much of my other kit either, so I'm looking to finish my set-up.

Initial thoughts are either the Zana Deux or the maxed WA6 SE (WA5 LE ruled out due to $500 shipping!)

Please give your thoughts on the above and mention any other good contenders - the amp will ideally have good synergy with the RS-1s and HD650s, be warm sounding (not a fan of too much treble) and look good (I apologise for this vanity, but for the money this is important to me - on this note I really don't like the look of the Single Power amps...)

Apologies for the life story

PS: Budget is flexible but max of circa £1800/$3600
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post #2 of 17
8/14/08 at 11:08pm
This is a tough choice and you have to go to a Head fi meet and audition these amps. Or if you can have some one loan you the two amps.
One thing I learned by attending a meet is that people's opinions do not matter. Your ears are your guide. I was suprised how some amps sounded great and some were a bit over rated.

I must confess that sometimes the appearance of an amp persuades me at times. The Zana does look more chic. But Woo amps are great though and the power supply on the 6SE model seems more impressive than the Zana's. IMO, power supply is a big deal.

If both amps sound great and it's a tough choice, then the Zana would be the winner because it has 3 inputs and a preamp output. IMO, a preamp out put is important to me because I also love speakers.
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post #3 of 17
8/15/08 at 8:33pm
OP, as the past owner of an X-Can V3 I can understand your disappointment. The good news is that if you are good with a soldering iron you can liven up the X-Can V3 for under $150. Of this the first $100 would go to buy the PinkFloyd Kit to upgrade the caps, diodes, etc. Then a pair of Russian 6HN23-EB to complete the transformation.

Personally I would sell the X-PSU and get one of PinkFloyd's Little Pinkie PSUs, much better overall sound and dynamics. If interested send me a PM.

Note: I am not associated w/ PinkFloyd nor do I make any monies w/ my recommendation.
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post #4 of 17
8/15/08 at 10:18pm
I decided specifically between these two. I chose the ZD after speaking to a very trusted head-fier who heard both. I love Woo and I am a huge fan of the original Woo6. However, I was assured that the ZD is in another league altogether.

I do want to note that this was comparing a ZD to a STOCK Woo 6. I think the upgrades may push it even closer, especially if you have a 274b Sophia tube. One thing is for sure, the Woo is a very lush, warm, and liquid amp, whereas I have heard people describe the ZD of more of a "solid state-ish" tube amp. We'll see in two weeks.
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post #5 of 17
8/15/08 at 10:58pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for your input.

Ultimately, I have decided to stick with the 336 for now. The reasons being:

1) The WA5 LE is the amp I have my heart set on. It looks great and by all accounts provides the sound I am looking for.
2)Due to my location (UK) I feel I would be best with the maxed version ($500 shipping). This means I can't ideally afford the amp just yet especially given recent appreciation of USD against GBP.

A quick note an meets, etc. I am UK based and therefore cannot realistically attend these.

So, once again, thank you for your advice, fingers crossed in a few months I'll be able to place my order with Jack
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post #6 of 17
8/15/08 at 11:18pm
^^ good idea to save for what you really want instead of being impatient and buying something that in the end you will not be entirely happy with.
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post #7 of 17
8/15/08 at 11:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maclrc View Post
Thank you all for your input.

Ultimately, I have decided to stick with the 336 for now. The reasons being:

1) The WA5 LE is the amp I have my heart set on. It looks great and by all accounts provides the sound I am looking for.
2)Due to my location (UK) I feel I would be best with the maxed version ($500 shipping). This means I can't ideally afford the amp just yet especially given recent appreciation of USD against GBP.

A quick note an meets, etc. I am UK based and therefore cannot realistically attend these.

So, once again, thank you for your advice, fingers crossed in a few months I'll be able to place my order with Jack
I think you won't be disappointed with the Woo WA5. It looks like a great amp and from everyone elses responses it seems like it sounds great as well.
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post #8 of 17
8/16/08 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maclrc View Post
Thank you all for your input.

Ultimately, I have decided to stick with the 336 for now. The reasons being:

1) The WA5 LE is the amp I have my heart set on. It looks great and by all accounts provides the sound I am looking for.
2)Due to my location (UK) I feel I would be best with the maxed version ($500 shipping). This means I can't ideally afford the amp just yet especially given recent appreciation of USD against GBP.

A quick note an meets, etc. I am UK based and therefore cannot realistically attend these.

So, once again, thank you for your advice, fingers crossed in a few months I'll be able to place my order with Jack
I think you made a good choice with the super duper WA5. Go for the top shelf stuff if you can. This way, you get a top level power supply and some great tubes too. There are so many 6SN7 tubes out there and 300B tubes are so plentiful as well. If you are going to get a good amp go for it!

Summit-Fi all the way baby!

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post #9 of 17
8/16/08 at 4:02am
I'd pick the Zana versus the woo6 upgraded. Versus the woo5 its a bit harder to compare.. I'd probably still take the Zana for normal headphones but obviously the Woo would win with the K1000.
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post #10 of 17
8/24/08 at 4:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1sixerfan View Post
I decided specifically between these two. I chose the ZD after speaking to a very trusted head-fier who heard both. I love Woo and I am a huge fan of the original Woo6. However, I was assured that the ZD is in another league altogether.

I do want to note that this was comparing a ZD to a STOCK Woo 6. I think the upgrades may push it even closer, especially if you have a 274b Sophia tube. One thing is for sure, the Woo is a very lush, warm, and liquid amp, whereas I have heard people describe the ZD of more of a "solid state-ish" tube amp. We'll see in two weeks.
My Woo WA6 Maxed with pseudo dual power supply mod (the second mod done by Woo which brings it closer to the SE) and a $100 Bugle Boy GZ34 rectifier is basically on the same level as Blutarsky's Zana Deux using my Grado RS-1 (or his HP-1000 that I sold him) - with the WA6 and ZD being very slightly behind his Melos SHA Gold or my Single Power Square Wave XL (balanced but running single ended).

Your description of the Woo vs Zana Deux (based on what you read) is not too far from reality, but the differences are not as dramatic as you'd think. My maxed/modded WA6 does sound a little more warm and liquid than the ZD, but not by very much, while the ZD has a crisp and wider sound but some of the upper mids seem slightly lacking. But the WA6 seems to have a slightly quicker decay that leads to a little blacker background between notes, which maybe lends less body or substance to the instruments being played. The Melos and Single Power sounded almost the same, but with the Melos having a wider soundstage and the SP having a taller soundstage. The Melos and SP both felt slightly better at maintaining the illusion of real instruments in the room with us than did the WA6 and ZD. I'd say the ZD and WA6 were 96-97% of the Melos or SP.

I am certain a Sophia Princess 274B or Emission Labs rectifier could push the WA6 past the Zana Deux and to the level of the Melos, but it's possible a tube upgrade on the ZD would bring them all level again.
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post #11 of 17
8/24/08 at 10:53am
I'd go with the Antique Sound Lab Twin Head MkIII. Decent options of tube rolling starting from the PSU and it's rectifiers, ending at the power stage where you can place 300B/2A3/45 from many manufacturers, not only NOS but also some great stuff from Emission Labs and others. However, I can't compare to the others but I'm just not sure if Zana Deux with 6S33S at the front is equally customizable.
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post #12 of 17
8/24/08 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post
My Woo WA6 Maxed with pseudo dual power supply mod (the second mod done by Woo which brings it closer to the SE) and a $100 Bugle Boy GZ34 rectifier is basically on the same level as Blutarsky's Zana Deux using my Grado RS-1 (or his HP-1000 that I sold him) - with the WA6 and ZD being very slightly behind his Melos SHA Gold or my Single Power Square Wave XL (balanced but running single ended).

Your description of the Woo vs Zana Deux (based on what you read) is not too far from reality, but the differences are not as dramatic as you'd think. My maxed/modded WA6 does sound a little more warm and liquid than the ZD, but not by very much, while the ZD has a crisp and wider sound but some of the upper mids seem slightly lacking. But the WA6 seems to have a slightly quicker decay that leads to a little blacker background between notes, which maybe lends less body or substance to the instruments being played. The Melos and Single Power sounded almost the same, but with the Melos having a wider soundstage and the SP having a taller soundstage. The Melos and SP both felt slightly better at maintaining the illusion of real instruments in the room with us than did the WA6 and ZD. I'd say the ZD and WA6 were 96-97% of the Melos or SP.

I am certain a Sophia Princess 274B or Emission Labs rectifier could push the WA6 past the Zana Deux and to the level of the Melos, but it's possible a tube upgrade on the ZD would bring them all level again.
We shall see, the ZD will should be here shortly. I had a woo 6 and loved it, but I'm not sure that it would be able to keep up.
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post #13 of 17
8/24/08 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1sixerfan View Post
We shall see, the ZD will should be here shortly. I had a woo 6 and loved it, but I'm not sure that it would be able to keep up.
number1sixerfan: I would love to hear your impressions with the W5000 and the D5000 when your ZD arrives. Both the RS-1 and the HD650 sound fantastic with it me thinks.
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post #14 of 17
8/24/08 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nor_spoon View Post
number1sixerfan: I would love to hear your impressions with the W5000 and the D5000 when your ZD arrives. Both the RS-1 and the HD650 sound fantastic with it me thinks.
I don't have the D5000 anymore, but I plan to buy the D7000 at launch. The W5000 is nearly great out of everything I plug them into. lol But, I will give you impressions when everything gets here!

Now the hunt begins for a pair of L3000
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post #15 of 17
8/24/08 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1sixerfan View Post
We shall see, the ZD will should be here shortly. I had a woo 6 and loved it, but I'm not sure that it would be able to keep up.
I agree your old WA6 probably couldn't keep up, because the Pseudo Dual Power Supply has only been available by special request since the end of May 2008, and without that mod the WA6 wont keep up. I know because it made a huge difference when I sent mine back to have it done by Jack - upon return the amp became more dynamic and opened up a lot with it, taking it to a whole new level. Jamato8 has been preaching about the mod for a while, after he did it to his own (and Takezo also did it to his), and Jack Wu finally got around to testing it and verifying that it was feasable, agreeing to do it for me the second or third time I asked him.
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