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Upgrade my Entech to WHAT?

post #1 of 19
8/13/08 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
I have an Entech 203.2 that I picked up several months ago on evilbay for 100 bucks. It still works and sounds ok (better than the onboard DAC in the CDP, anyway), but I wouldn't mind upgrading if I can do it 'reasonably'. Mind you, I am not looking at spending $1000 or even $500. That being said, would I be wasting my time (and $) by swapping out the Number Cruncher for something like a Lite DAC-AH Modded, Moodlab Concept or does the Entech already live in that neighborhood?

My junk is more or less entry level (see sig) and I was thinking my DAC might be the best candidate for an upgrade. How much would I have to spend to realize an audible difference if I left everything else as is?

Please excuse my lack of DAC knowledge. Recommendations & advice are welcome.

THANKS!
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post #2 of 19
8/14/08 at 7:48am
Beresford TC7510 with headfi discount? I just got one more for my office since it so cheap but mighty good sound after burn in. I also get 5% discount as headfi customer and 5% as repeat customer . If I was student I would also get another 5%. So if you are student maybe you read up on TC7510 on headfi and see if you like. That way your budget satisfied and still you get best DAC in the market at U$200 max ceiling.
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post #3 of 19
8/14/08 at 8:33am
I've not heard it but I've been impressed by the design of the Keces DA-131 for a little while.

Good PCB layout, decent power supply and onboard regulation, good dac and receiver, ICs all bypassed, dc coupled analogue output, allows opamp rolling....seems fairly priced.

Should be a big step up from the entry-level offerings.

And a lot of potential for simple to more ambitious tweaks, if you feel inclined.
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post #4 of 19
8/14/08 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
I've not heard it but I've been impressed by the design of the Keces DA-131 for a little while.

Should be a big step up from the entry-level offerings.
If you haven't heard it, why do you assume it would be a big step up? Companies that have larger sales can afford to sell cheaper by passing reduced manufacturing costs down the line. Using your logic, you are encouraging manufacturers to keep prices artificially high just so their products are seen as a big step up. But such greed comes at a price. Just look how many European companies have gone to the wall, because of their inability to compete on price against the Far East, even when they had an inferior product. Price is after all a figure grabbed out of the air and slapped on a product. There is no fixed formula for it. Even the Keces if heavily overpriced when compared to the better specced and built Zhaolu D3 and Yulong.
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post #5 of 19
8/14/08 at 9:46am
I don't know how good of a DAC you'll get for a few hundred. You could get lucky and pick up a Parasound 1600 used from Audiogon < 500 which does a good job. Sonic Frontiers and Assemblage DACs also sound good when modded (if you are into doing that). Or you could look into one of the DIY pre-populated DACs fro Twisted Pear if you don't mind wiring/case work; that would save you some $.
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post #6 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herandu View Post
IUsing your logic, you are encouraging manufacturers to keep prices artificially high just so their products are seen as a big step up.....
Oh am I? Or are you just going off on one whilst angling for another shill of the Beresford?

In case you couldn't read properly, I said I was impressed by the design. The Keces' topology is familiar to me from my experience of several stock and DIY DACs, I know what parts affect sound; compared to the $100 DACs this will be a step-up in terms of basic digital audio circuit design. If I was in the market for something at this range, I would consider it.

Here is the schematic:
http://www.keces.com.tw/4_download/d...AC1793_sch.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herandu View Post
Even the Keces if heavily overpriced when compared to the better specced and built Zhaolu D3 and Yulong.
The quality of your incoherent babbling is stupefying in its consistency. Better specced? Show me. Better built? Show me. Otherwise, please don't bother to post.
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post #7 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:02am
It cost very little to build a DAC, even a good one. A DAC is a CDP without the expensive mechanism, LCD display, and large parts of its electronics, but with a couple of cheap digital inputs added.
DAC manufacturers have to add all sorts of expensive extras just so that they can bump the price up. These include power amp sized transformers and capacitors when in reality the power consumption of a DAC is far less than of a CDP. But you don't find those same big transformers and caps in your average high-end CDP.
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post #8 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Oh am I?

FYI, the Keces' topology is familiar to me from my experience of several stock and DIY DACs, I know what parts affect sound; compared to the $100 DACs this will be a step-up in terms of basic digital audio circuit design. If I was in the market for something at this range, I would consider it.
I see you edited your post just in time. Lost your bottle in the end?

So you burnt your fingers on a soldering iron with a couple of DIY projects, and that makes you an expert on manufacturing cost? Let's face it, the Keces cannot hold itself against the better priced Zhaolu and Yulong, just to name a few. Have you seen the inside of those two latter DACs and seen how much more professional they are laid out than the Keces? Their ICs are in socket, their DAC chip sets are highly respected, and still they manage to be cheaper than the inferior Keces. So how can you even claim the Keces is a better choice, unless you have something against low prices?
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post #9 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:22am
Yeah, if I wrote what I really thought of your posts...well, I don't want to be get banned.

IC sockets, lol? Keces has them, too. But so what? Lower inductance when NOT using sockets. The DACs are all comparable; it's only 1 part of what determines the sound, and not necessarily even the most important. Look at the power supply, look at the analogue output circuitry and look at the bypassing.

"Inferior" Power consumption? DC is DC? Since you like cheap, here's a tip, free from me :P ...I get the feeling that your knowledge of audio equipment is "inferior" to mine. And my soldering iron is longer. And more expensive :O

PM me if you want to continue to flame. I'll be smart and not derail this thread any further.
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post #10 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Yeah, if I wrote what I really thought of your posts...well, I don't want to be get banned.

IC sockets, lol? Keces has them, too. But so what? Lower inductance when NOT using sockets. The DACs are all comparable; it's only 1 part of what determines the sound, and not necessarily even the most important. Look at the power supply, look at the analogue output circuitry and look at the bypassing.

"Inferior" Power consumption? DC is DC? Since you like cheap, here's a tip, free from me :P ...I get the feeling that your knowledge of audio equipment is "inferior" to mine. And my soldering iron is longer. And more expensive :O

PM me if you want to continue to flame. I'll be smart and not derail this thread any further.
Flame, what flame? You are the one that gets red hot under the collar when you see me posting. Even if I was writing about the lovely blue skies out there you would disagree on principle.

I am not surprised to read that you have a superiority complex about your DIY skills. Every butcher thinks he'll make a great surgeon.
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post #11 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herandu View Post
It cost very little to build a DAC, even a good one. A DAC is a CDP without the expensive mechanism, LCD display, and large parts of its electronics, but with a couple of cheap digital inputs added.
DAC manufacturers have to add all sorts of expensive extras just so that they can bump the price up. These include power amp sized transformers and capacitors when in reality the power consumption of a DAC is far less than of a CDP. But you don't find those same big transformers and caps in your average high-end CDP.
Eh, I don't even need to write a sarcastic reply, you supply your own rebuttals. Cheers!
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post #12 of 19
8/14/08 at 11:01am
I've owned an Entech 203.2 for a few years and it's quite good for the price (they used to tell for ~$300 if I recall correctly). The units that I eventually upgraded to were the Ack dAck 2.0 and the Lite DAC 38 which I felt were both better than the Entech. If you take into account the price of the latter units, it's probably at least 3-4 times what you spent on the Entech, so I'd say you would have to make a decent investment to "upgrade".
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post #13 of 19
8/14/08 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
Other than Pacific Valve, where is a good place to shop around for <$500 DACs (not DIY) ?

THANKS!
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post #14 of 19
8/14/08 at 10:52pm
Scott Nixon Dacs have a good reputation, he has both SS and tube versions. I have wanted to get one for a long time but have failed to do so.
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post #15 of 19
8/14/08 at 11:36pm

Musiland > Entech

My musiland Md-10 was a big step-up from the entech, and it can be had for below 250$ in the FS forums.
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