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Goodbye Rega P7, Hello Sota Star Sapphire - Page 2

post #16 of 21
8/11/08 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimJo View Post
Wow, that is an amazing engineering feat. It sounds as though they must pass the vacuum 'line' up through the vertical bearing assembly and into the platter itself, perhaps with a hollow bearing spindle. Is the platter removable?
It's clever alright. The only caveat is that you must keep the platter and your records scrupulously clean otherwise the vacuum can grind dirt into the grooves. Another issue is that the seals go in the long term and of course with the extra motor for the vacuum pump it's one more possible source of noise.

This is one of the problems now with the big Lux direct drives which had this feature in the late '70s early '80s. Of course with Sota though you're fully supported so long as they are in business so it's a non-issue.

From what I have heard from a Luxman owner I know, the level of detail is incredible. Funnily enough he favours an SME 3009 non "improved" version as well
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post #17 of 21
8/11/08 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
The platter does not appear to be removable...at least by me.

I can tell you that the vacuum line connects to the underside of the turntable at the platter center, opposite the spindle. However, there are two very small holes at the edge of the platter on opposite sides and that is where the suction is drawn.

--Jerome
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post #18 of 21
8/11/08 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
It's clever alright. The only caveat is that you must keep the platter and your records scrupulously clean otherwise the vacuum can grind dirt into the grooves. Another issue is that the seals go in the long term and of course with the extra motor for the vacuum pump it's one more possible source of noise.
I'm not sure I see how the vacuum can grind dirt into the grooves of a record. The vacuum draws suction in the space between the record and the platter. Perhaps if the vacuum blew air into that space (but then it would be a blower and not a vacuum).

You make a valid point about the seal. But it isn't like the turntable is useless without the vacuum feature working. There are a few members here who had Sota vacuum tables with bad vacuum motors who noted that the turntable still worked fine and made great music.

And one of the things about Sota that I really like as a company is that for a fee they will update a vintage table like a Series II with current generation parts such as suspension springs, power supply, motor, vacuum platter, etc. I have an email out to them asking for pricing for this service.

--Jerome
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post #19 of 21
8/11/08 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
Ah but which series II? I hadn't realised there was also a difference between Series II and S2 but this seems to have been the case

SME | Tonearm Mounting Distance and Alignment Information | Vinyl Engine

There is some good info on effective mass and visaully telling them apart here.

SME 3009 / 3012

The original Series II was made up until 1972. The S2 / "improved" was until 1981 when the release the "R" version. The one I had was definitly an S2 "improved" with a fixed headshell going by the pics. It certainly did'nt have a hex key on the counterweight and was much happier with MM's like the Shure V15. It was also originally mounted on my TD160B so suited for a lighter suspension.


According to this any SME 3009 with a removable headshell ought to be a good mechanical match for the Benz Glider
Resonant Frequency Evaluator

But the 1812 is exactly the kind of "tourture track" which will highlight alignment / resonance issues.

Ultimately I sold my 3009 "improved" because I didn't like it as much as my Origin Live Rega derived arm on modern music and at that point I didn't consider keeping it just for playing classical music ( although nowadays I definitely would )
In many ways I found them diametrically opposed with the Rega being very strong accross the whole frequency band but a little mechanical sounding in the mids compared to the SME which had the most beautiful midrange but wasn't as good at frequency extremes.
Of course I was comparing them on the same turntable ( a Thorens TD125 ) whereas you've upgraded this as well. The Sota is probably going to make up for the deficiencies of the Rega deck in the bass, being much heavier engineered, so you probably won't notice this so much.
Hi Memepool: I was wondering if some of the roll off at the frequency extremes of the vintage SME tonearm could be due to it's vintage wiring. I suppose its hard to answer the question without actually comparing a rewired one to a stock one but it seem rewiring these particular tonearms is not uncommon.
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post #20 of 21
8/12/08 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post
I'm not sure I see how the vacuum can grind dirt into the grooves of a record. The vacuum draws suction in the space between the record and the platter. Perhaps if the vacuum blew air into that space (but then it would be a blower and not a vacuum).
As I said I have heard this only from a Luxman owner as it's the other famous deck which uses this system. The Luxman sucks the record down onto the mat so any foreign matter on the records surface can be pressed into the grooves if you're not careful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssportclay
Hi Memepool: I was wondering if some of the roll off at the frequency extremes of the vintage SME tonearm could be due to it's vintage wiring. I suppose its hard to answer the question without actually comparing a rewired one to a stock one but it seem rewiring these particular tonearms is not uncommon.
I've only really heard the 3009 S2 Improved I had in the context of my own system when comparing it to the Rega so I'm not sure that it holds for all 3009s.
Apparently though from what I've read the new SME Series M2 don't sound that dissimilar so I guess it's just the way the arm is made rather than any design shortcomings.

When I checked the measurements of it recently compared to other arms it actually measured very well for such an old design so I guess SME felt why mess with a classic. It's actually not too dissimilar to the presentation of a unipivot arm, very good with classical music in much the same way Quad electrostatics are and not really designed for Hip Hop.

For that there is always the Series IV / V. In fact I preferred the Series III in many ways as it had much better bass without sacrificing the lovely midrange. These arn't quite so sought after as they are very low mass so don't work with modern MCs.

Of course that's not to say rewiring won't improve any older arm. Audio Origami have a range of modifications to the bearing as well.

But the wiring on my SME's looked pretty good quality so I didn't bother with tweaking as I thought it would damage the resale value and I had made up my mind not to keep them.
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post #21 of 21
8/12/08 at 9:43pm
Thread Starter 
Memepool,

Thanks for the wealth of information on the SME tonearm. At some point I may want to change out cartridges just to try something different. I saw that you mentioned Grado in your previous note and that is one that has been on my short list...though I have seen numerous posts on Vinyl Asylum saying they were noisy. The Shure MM you mentioned seems to be a bit scarce.

I haven't gotten around to listening to much modern music yet. It has been mostly classical since I have a box of classical records here I recently picked up that I am going through. But so far I am very pleased with this Sota and I like the performance of the SME 3009 arm.

I'll definitely sample more and more music over time, and perhaps my opinion will change. But for right now I think I am off to great start with this turntable and couldn't be happier. I appreciate the advice that gave me on the arm...I am glad I took it with the deck.

--Jerome
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