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Should I upgrade the CDP or just get a DAC for my Oppo?

post #1 of 17
8/8/08 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
Ok, here's my current setup:

Oppo 980----->Monoprice IC----->Darkvoice 336i----->Grado SR-80s

I plan on upgrading the SR-80s to a pair of Senn HD-650s, and will then upgrade the 336i to a 332 sometime in the future. Before upgrading my amp, though, I want to upgrade my source, and I have a budget of around $500. I obviously want a player that can AT LEAST play SACD, if not be fully universal. From my research, 3 players seem to be good choices for me (of course, I am open to suggestions):

Denon-3910 (cheapest of the three, but worst, even though it's still good)
Marantz SA8001 (a little outside of the budget, but deals could happen)
Marantz DV7001 (universal, decent price, supposed to be close to the 8001)

Given the price of these units, though, I'm confronted with the following; would it be a better use of my money to simply pair the Oppo with a good DAC? The Oppo has ALL the features I want, and I would probably keep it around no matter what player I get. So it would seem that it may be advantageous to go out and get a DAC that costs, IDK, $300, that brings me close to the sound of a $600 CDP. Of course, I don't know if such a DAC actually exists.

So, any thoughts? My DAC budget would be the same as my CDP budget, but I'd only be willing to spend that much if it gave me noticeably BETTER sound combined with my Oppo than if I went out and got a new CDP. USB is not an issue, as this won't be for computer use. Portability is also not important. It also doesn't need to have a headphone amp or even a jack.

EDIT: The Bel Canto DAC2 looks good, especially if I could find it used in the sub-$600 range. Any thoughts on a match with the Oppo vs. upgrading to the DV7001?
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post #2 of 17
8/8/08 at 3:48pm
Marantz SA8001 simply because its on my to-get list
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post #3 of 17
8/8/08 at 3:58pm
Why SACD? I'd spend your money on a CD player [not sure in that price range, maybe something from Cambridge] or a DAC. You could get a modded Zhaolu or something from Channel Islands, or even a Pico, and it would likely outclass those players you mentioned.
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post #4 of 17
8/8/08 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
Should I upgrade the CDP or just get a DAC for my Oppo?

Ok, here's my current setup: Oppo 980----->Monoprice IC----->Darkvoice 336i----->Grado SR-80s
IMHO, the Oppo is a good universal player, including SACD, so why upgrade? You might want to consider waiting till Oppo releases their new model(s), which are supposed to include Blu-Ray. Rumor has it they will be released sometime between Dec 2008 and Apr 2009. It might be worth the wait. If not, I'd recommend going DAC as it will allow you more flexibility, expecially in future upgrades.

Alternately, have you looked into mods? Check out this AudioCircle article Modding the Oppo 980. It's a good read if nothing else.
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post #5 of 17
8/8/08 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox View Post
Why SACD?
Dylan, Classical, Jazz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philodox View Post
I'd spend your money on a CD player [not sure in that price range, maybe something from Cambridge] or a DAC. You could get a modded Zhaolu or something from Channel Islands, or even a Pico, and it would likely outclass those players you mentioned.
A modded Zhaolu? I heard that one paraded around a lot. Those go for about $300-$400 w/o the headphone amp, right? That fits right in with the price of the Denon 3910. Would I actually get better sound pairing the Zhalou with my Oppo than if I just got the Denon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHamm View Post
IMHO, the Oppo is a good universal player, including SACD, so why upgrade?
"Why upgrade?" is a question that really should never be brought up on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHamm View Post
You might want to consider waiting till Oppo releases their new model(s), which are supposed to include Blu-Ray. Rumor has it they will be released sometime between Dec 2008 and Apr 2009. It might be worth the wait. If not, I'd recommend going DAC as it will allow you more flexibility, expecially in future upgrades.
I have a PS3, so Blu-Ray is of no concern to me when it comes to one of these.

As for modding, I can't solder, so the only ones I would look into would be those that simply require popping something out and replacing it with something else.
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post #6 of 17
8/9/08 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
"Why upgrade?" is a question that really should never be brought up on this forum.
Upgrade in the sense you use the Oppo as a transport, which covers all the mediums, and add a higher quality DAC to suit your tastes.

Personally, I do not buy into constant upgraditis. That is not to say I never upgrade, but I have equipment decades old out performs a good deal of what is available today and, as I am satisfied with it, all the more reason to sit and enjoy the music and not the device (or vice?), but to each their own. If upgrading makes you happy, go for it, but everyone is entitled to choice, including making a satisfactory choice the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
I have a PS3, so Blu-Ray is of no concern to me when it comes to one of these.
Good for you! I can't stand game machines so I personally would never consider one for use as a DVD, unless in my camper, but certainly not an audio player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
As for modding, I can't solder, so the only ones I would look into would be those that simply require popping something out and replacing it with something else.
I can relate to that as I mod very little myself but I do have an interest in understanding some mods and what they can do for devices, especially sound. I've considered getting someone to build me a hybrid to give a tube headamp a try, but that may be more involved than I really want to get into at this stage.
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post #7 of 17
8/9/08 at 1:48am
We explored the OP's exact question at the NJ meet, comparing my Oppo 981 with and without external DACs to higher-end CDPs.

The conclusion was: add a good DAC to the Oppo and for 2-channel audio you rival very very good CDPs. So go for the DAC.

CAUTION -- you will not be able to listen to your SACDs thru the DAC. Oppo will not put any digital PCM signal on the S/PDIF output (coax or TOSlink) when playing an SACD. No one does that except modded players and very high end (Wadia, for instance). So you still need the analog connection for the SACDs.

But for "redbook" 2-channel audio (regular CDs), the Oppo transport, a reasonable digital cable, and a good upsampling DAC will bring home the bacon, no doubt. It will beat many more costly CDPs.
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post #8 of 17
8/9/08 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavoman View Post
CAUTION -- you will not be able to listen to your SACDs thru the DAC. Oppo will not put any digital PCM signal on the S/PDIF output (coax or TOSlink) when playing an SACD. No one does that except modded players and very high end (Wadia, for instance). So you still need the analog connection for the SACDs.
Doh! No DACs have SACD support? Or just seriously high-end ones?? I currently don't do SACD but have considered it, and knowing this will play a role in any of my future upgrades.
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post #9 of 17
8/9/08 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
So what DACs should I be looking at? I've also decided to sell my PS3, so my budget would expand to make the SA8001 possible.
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post #10 of 17
8/9/08 at 2:43pm
I auditioned the Marantz CD5001, CD6002 and SA7001 today. I heard a lot about the praise on its headphone section, but I am still rather surprised by how good it is.

I'm also interested to know about transport + DAC (Tianyun, Zhaolu and etc) vs "name brand" player.
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post #11 of 17
8/9/08 at 4:29pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, and the fact that the Oppo won't spit the hi-res SACD or DVDA out the optical/SPDIF makes me much less interested in the DAC idea.

I think the key for me is finding a DAC for $400 or less that makes my Oppo sound noticeably better than the Denon 3910, and maybe comes close to one of the Marantz units I listed. I mean, if DAC A costs $350 or so, and makes my Oppo sound as good as the 3910, then I'll just get the Denon because of the SACD/DVDA issue. If, however, a $350 DAC can make my Oppo sound like the SA8001 (if such a magical device actually exists), then I don't mind the DVDA/SACD issue so much cause I'm saving a few hundred bucks.
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post #12 of 17
8/10/08 at 1:56pm
If possible, try to audition the players you mentioned.

I'm just back from another round of audition in two days. I compared Marantz SA7001 and a Denon DCD-1500AE, they sounded quite different IMO.

The Denon has a warm and laid back sound while the Marantz has a brighter and livelier sound. Both have great headphone section and drive my K501 really well. The sales guys swears by the Denon and claim that it has better detail. I can't tell if it has more detail, but my ears prefers the Marantz and it is what I got.
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post #13 of 17
8/10/08 at 3:18pm
The issue with SACD is interesting. Don't give up on the DAC idea yet.

DACs will take in (L)PCM over S/PDIF (coax or optical) at high sampling rates (some will top out at 24/96, but most will do 24/192 - a few older ones stop at 16/48 or redbook 16/44.1) or AES/BEU (the pro standard, much the same thing), but they do not read DSD, the format of SACD.

And very few transports will convert DSD to an LPCM stream. Wadia is the only one I know, but I am sure there are others. Oppo will not. Many Pioneer, Denon, and Marantz units can be modded using the Vanity board from Audiopraise Vanity :: High Resolution Digital Output for CD/SACD/DVD-Audio -- see the site for a list. Perhaps this is a good way forward for you.

So maybe this: get a great DAC for now, stay with the Oppo -- it will sound as good as many higher-end CD players on redbook CD's. Later get a better CDP and mod it (or have it modded if you are all thumbs, like me ... folks on the DIY forum can help) to handle SACD ... and you keep your nice new DAC!

Be sure your DAC handles 24/96, or better 24/192. I have not listened to any in this price range so I can't pick brands. Get it on the web so it can be returned after you listen with the Oppo.

People like the Spitfire, fits right in your budget (and you can upgrade OpAmps):

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/fir...5/#post1817498


Spitfire 24 Bit DAC - Digital to Analog Converter - Audio DAC - digital analog converter - Firestone Audio

Miniature Audio - Spitfire 24 Bit DAC

Good luck ... the Oppo transport and decoder is better than you think -- it's the DAC and the rest of the electronics that wreck the SQ.
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post #14 of 17
8/10/08 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
Oh, and the fact that the Oppo won't spit the hi-res SACD or DVDA out the optical/SPDIF makes me much less interested in the DAC idea.

I think the key for me is finding a DAC for $400 or less that makes my Oppo sound noticeably better than the Denon 3910, and maybe comes close to one of the Marantz units I listed. I mean, if DAC A costs $350 or so, and makes my Oppo sound as good as the 3910, then I'll just get the Denon because of the SACD/DVDA issue. If, however, a $350 DAC can make my Oppo sound like the SA8001 (if such a magical device actually exists), then I don't mind the DVDA/SACD issue so much cause I'm saving a few hundred bucks.
I hear you. I've been looking for another CDP, specifically for HDCD, but some classical friends have gotten me hooked on a couple new SACDs. :P

I've never owned Denon but I've had Marantz, when it was an american company. I'm going to check out their SACDPs but I'm hesitant about their newer (japanese) stuff, I don't know why. (And I keep forgetting SACD is Sony proprietary.)

PS: Are these Zumreed Dream ZHP-005 Color Headphones are just wrong in pink, or is it just me?
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post #15 of 17
8/18/08 at 8:48pm
i would be very careful about trying to upgrade your 980. You may find as i did that it is actually really rather good already and upgrading may cost more than you think for a "noticeable" difference..... ie the point of diminishing returns comes into play BIG time here. A/Bing and testing is essential IMO

I sold my highly rated DAC (which is still in production. no names mentioned to protect the innocent) for that very reason. Bought purely based on reviews and forum postings....

Out of interest, wavoman, what "good" DAC are you thinking of that turns the oppo into an even bigger giant slayer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavoman View Post
We explored the OP's exact question at the NJ meet, comparing my Oppo 981 with and without external DACs to higher-end CDPs.

The conclusion was: add a good DAC to the Oppo and for 2-channel audio you rival very very good CDPs. So go for the DAC.

CAUTION -- you will not be able to listen to your SACDs thru the DAC. Oppo will not put any digital PCM signal on the S/PDIF output (coax or TOSlink) when playing an SACD. No one does that except modded players and very high end (Wadia, for instance). So you still need the analog connection for the SACDs.

But for "redbook" 2-channel audio (regular CDs), the Oppo transport, a reasonable digital cable, and a good upsampling DAC will bring home the bacon, no doubt. It will beat many more costly CDPs.
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