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Tianyun ZERO - Factory(?) Substituting Inferior Parts

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I picked up a ZERO 24/192 today.

The Coax input is only syncing up to 48000hz. 16 or 24 works, just no support for 96 or 192khz. Optical works fine at all rates.

I took the top off the unit to see if there was an obvious problem with the unit.

The screw in the Coax jack has been overtorqued and its cracked. There is also no grounding shim. I checked the ground, and its fine.

I then tried a few sources and cables without luck.

Then I noticed that 6 of the 8 Elna Cerafine capacitors have been changed. In the Headphone amp, the 2 25V33uf caps right behind the volume knob are now Elna Silmic II 10V47uf. The other 2 to the right are still the Elna 16V100uf. On the Main Board, all 4 of the 25V47uf caps are now the Silmic II 10V47uf.

All of the 6 replaced Caps are lower spec, but the Silmic II are a new warmer capacitor that is supposed to be better sounding than the Cerafine. It could be that all of the caps were previously over specced for their role in the circuit - I don't know. There are several other substitutions throughout the unit.

I went ahead and pulled the DAC board to check the back side. The solder job was sloppy as hell. Solder across traces in a couple of places. No cold solder joints though. Reinstalled and still have the same problem with the coax input.

I am going to be getting the opamps and volume knob replaced ASAP. The volume currently tracks very unevenly below 3 o'clock. The volume literally fades in from the right. I can deal with this in the HD600's, but the Shures are unlistenable because of the balance issues.
post #2 of 13
Thread Starter 
I double check what I was seeing and took lots of pics. I will post them later on.
post #3 of 13
They did change the capacitors earlier this year. Replacement doesn't necessarily mean that the substitutions are of lower quality, though I can't really comment.

Mine works at 88.2khz, can't comment above that. The SPDIF receiver IC is capable of 192khz though, as is the DAC IC.

Sucks about the screw for the coax socket.

Are you able to return it for a replacement?

~Phewl.
post #4 of 13
The cap changes don't sound like they were trying to cheap out, just that the old ones were overspec'd. Going from 25V to 10V doesn't matter as long as the caps are properly spec'd, if they're not right you'll know it when you hear a "pop". If anything, the change from 33uF to 47uF sounds like an upgrade.

The rest does sound a bit shady though. I wonder if the solder bridges were intentional (not excusable, the PCB layout should be changed instead), it's hard to imagine you could short a bunch of traces and end up with units that still work at all.
post #5 of 13
I think TC is right. With my old Zero, I noticed some odd things.

One was that through optical, it only supported up to either 48Khz or 96khz (can't remember which). It *definitely* didn't support 192khz at either 16 or 24 bit. I thought this was just my soundcard drivers being crappy. I didn't test coax.

Certain caps seemed smaller than in pics of other Zeros, esp. the marketting pics and Penchum's pics.

I thought it was just me, but I guess not.
post #6 of 13
My zero didn't go above 48khz on optical for a while. Recently 96khz started working for no reason. This is all on 24-bit by the way, though 16-bit worked the same way.

Could this be a quality of burn-in? Between 96khz not working and then working, there was about 30 hours of burn-in.
post #7 of 13
What's wrong with Silmic II (RFS line)? It is the replacement (upgrade) for the Cerafine.
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
On the caps, sorry, noob here. Sorry. The ones I have are exactly the same as the ones in the other person's that is doing the HDAM upgrade on page 509ish in the main thread.

On the solder, it was just sloppy work. It looked like they would solder one thing and move on to the next and just leave a little trail of solder. Definitely not intentional. I broke out the Canon and the Macro lens to get pictures before I cleaned everything up. I will get the pics posted tomorrow.

Also, is it normal for the Zero to have a chemical / solvent smell inside? I have worked with a LOT of vintage gear and know all of the smells associated with older or damaged gear. The Zero is a new one on me.

Oh - one important thing - it sounds pretty good so far. I have opamps on order and I am working on getting the vol pot ordered. I think it has a lot of potential (the Zero - no pun intended on the vol pot ). On the quality, maybe I was expecting too much for $140
post #9 of 13
I got my zero amp last week, the 192KHz optical don't seem to work from my soundcard either...
post #10 of 13
For me, both 96khz and 192khz would just result in quiet pops and crackles through the headphone jack. Recently 96khz started working for no reason as mentioned above. Maybe it has something to do with what opamp you have in the DAC section?
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolchu001 View Post
I got my zero amp last week, the 192KHz optical don't seem to work from my soundcard either...
Looks like its a crapshoot then. My optical plays great with whatever I feed it. My coax looses sync at 96khz and above.

Is there a way to 100% verify that a chip is legit? In the last year I have seen articles in hi-fi mags about the Chinese industry. I remember them talking about one factory getting caught removing DAC labels and then silkscreening the labeling for a more expensive chip.

It would be nice to make sure that CS8416 is what its supposed to be, then start working back up the circuit to see whats causing the issues with bit rates not working on some units.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taso89 View Post
For me, both 96khz and 192khz would just result in quiet pops and crackles through the headphone jack. Recently 96khz started working for no reason as mentioned above. Maybe it has something to do with what opamp you have in the DAC section?
Could be.

I am also wondering if a 110/50 to 120/60 step up transformer would help.
post #13 of 13
I'm going to have some LM4562's coming in and I'm putting those in the DAC and phones. We'll see if I still have issues.
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