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Sony MDR-R10 Owner's Club - Page 9

post #121 of 465
↑ The question is what's inside the R10 that creates this very unique sound, what material is used on the driver? How large is the diaphragm and what sensitivity are the phones? I'm struggling to find any specs online but feel free to link me. Recently I've been interested in these older headphones, more so Sony after receiving my DR-Z6; it similarly sounds like nothing I've heard before. I guess you could say they don't make them like this anymore.

...I would think a partially closed picture of you with any headphone would significantly drop their value!
post #122 of 465
I am surprised I never posted in this thread.
I have a bass heavy serial # 10xx made 2002 (I have to check exact #)
Really haven't used them much in the past year,sitting in its case
in the closet.

I need to get my act together & get my main system up & running.
post #123 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
↑ The question is what's inside the R10 that creates this very unique sound, what material is used on the driver? How large is the diaphragm and what sensitivity are the phones? I'm struggling to find any specs online but feel free to link me. Recently I've been interested in these older headphones, more so Sony after receiving my DR-Z6; it similarly sounds like nothing I've heard before. I guess you could say they don't make them like this anymore.
To start off, thats exactly right, they dont make them like they used to.

As far as whats inside there are a few interesting things going on.

Start with the drivers because thats a good place to start. They are 50mm, I dont remember sensitivity (like most sony cans they are fairly sensitive). Thats borrrrring, could describe tons of headphones made in japan really. The neat thing about the R10 drivers (and CD3000 and MDR-e888) are that they are a biocelulose. Rather than a plastic which is injected into a mold or melted as a sheet and pressed into the mold these are GROWN on the mold. Microorganisms are made to grow in the shape of the driver. and they leave cellulose behind. what fun. it allows for silly-thin (and consequently lightweight) things which are still very rigid, BUT isnt the most repeatable process and sony apparently had many rejects.

Part 2 is the wooden bits. This is nifty too.
The shell of the headphone is filled with a woolly material. It felt like cotton. The overall shape of the shell was selected to break up and avoid the creation of standing waves. The walls of the shell are thin enough that a bright light can be seen through them. They also have a finely stepped pattern inside the shells. It is much coarser than what even a cheap CNC router can accomplish so I would assume they are deliberate, and probably function to both let the wood flex and vibrate a little bit like in a violin while contributing a little strength and being ripply to break up standing waves.

The frame is magnesium, which isnt too impressive really. The pads are leather. Something neat about the pads is that they FORCE you to put the headphones on within a small range of "the sweet spot". Go to a meet and watch how people put on headphones with big holes. Where do their ears go? Who cares! Throw expensive speakers in a room wherever they fit and sit wherever your seat has always been in there and it sounds great.... just like headphones.... right. I get it, speakers HAVE to work in the space people have. Headphones dont. Very few people take the time to put even common headphones on in their sweet spot. Just like how you put speakers in a room, headphones sound different depending how you wear them! There is room for improvement with the R10 with fine-tuning where you put them on with regards to where the ear-holes are, but there isnt a bad spot in the 6mm of play they give you.

The cable:
Nicer than you may think. Considering the general trends in cables in the late 80's when these were being designed MUCH nicer than anything else at the time. I guess people fall into 2 camps: Cables dont matter or cables do matter. If they dont matter, great! If they do matter what are you going to do to the overall sound signature of these headphones by changing the cable?
post #124 of 465
Very interesting stuff Ari! However I was under the impression that the cable used in the R10 is "just about as bad as it gets" or something similar according to one of those old jenalab/r10 debacle threads. I can't remember who performed the fix (APS?) but they tested the cable and it tested very poorly iirc. Whether that's audible or not is another matter.
post #125 of 465
I forgot something.

So everyone says the R10 are closed. Yea, that bugs me*. Although looking at them from the outside you cant see the back of the drivers like on senn's and grados and other "open" headphones they have an elegantly hidden port! If you look at the seam between the metal ring that the ear pads glue to and the wooden shell there is a ~1/4" gap with a paper ring just inside. The gap is the port! the inside of that metal ring is filled with foam, and the front side of the wood (behind the ear pads) has a bunch of small holes drilled in it. Sound escapes from the wooden shell through these holes, and filters out through the foam. Truly cool! Quite a few headphones employ a similar techniques in various degrees to avoid the perils of a closed headphone while maintaining SQ and looking like earmuffs.

Another thing with the R10 that is quite unique is that the wooden shell is NOT rigidly connected to the frame of the headphones. It has a suspension made of 3 rubber grommets. I think this is very cool, and as far as I know nobody else does this. Maybe the CD3000, but no other headphones I have seen photos of or taken apart attempt to do this.

*For the truly closed experience compare a DT770monitor to a DT770/80 (DT770M is only available in 80 ohms). Swap the pads around to limit the effects of that variable. That puzzled look on your face... "How can 2 headphones with largely similar enclosures and the same drivers sound so different" you ask. The DT770/80 everyone knows and loves has a 1/4" hole through the outer shell, the Monitor does not.
post #126 of 465
Thanks for the info nikongod, sounds impressive but $4,000+ impressive... I would have to hear them I guess.

The biocellulose drivers certainly make them unique, I guess it was too expensive for Sony to continue this in future models after the CD3000. But really how costly could it be for them, I wonder, if indeed this is why they sound so godly it isn't seen more. The large wooden housing we've seen from Denon and Grado in a slightly different form which they say works better than plastic for SQ.

Well like I say I'd like to hear these, I'm off to a meet in July but AFAIK no one is bringing R10s.

...I've had another thought, uhoh! Could is be that manufacturers are not only creating cheaper products than they used too but developing headphones with the masses in mind; that being the people and their hip-hop with copious amount of bass and not highly detailed classical reproductive headphones...
post #127 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
Thanks for the info nikongod, sounds impressive but $4,000+ impressive... I would have to hear them I guess.

...

Well like I say I'd like to hear these, I'm off to a meet in July but AFAIK no one is bringing R10s.
Coming to CanJam? You'll probably see a pair, if so you can make a decision then to see if they're worth it.
post #128 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
The neat thing about the R10 drivers (and CD3000 and MDR-e888) are that they are a biocelulose.
Holy crap. You've just made me want to go back to my roots, hunt down some old stock 888's somewhere and listen to them again will all my new knowledge.
post #129 of 465
Does that mean you can eat the R10 drivers? You guys make them sound so tasty
post #130 of 465
Thanks for all the info n-god-guy.
I'd read that the drivers were bioceulose but I never realized just what that meant. I'd love to read more about that technique. Any links?
post #131 of 465
...and I always thought that it was because the wood came from the famed Zelkova Rainforest.
post #132 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevorlane View Post
Coming to CanJam? You'll probably see a pair, if so you can make a decision then to see if they're worth it.
No a local meet in Fort Myers. Even if I love them it isn't something I could buy, it would just put my current headphones in perspective.
post #133 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post
...and I always thought that it was because the wood came from the famed Zelkova Rainforest.
And...the wood was harvested from a 200 years old + Zelkova tree for the right physical properties.

Quote:
Holy crap. You've just made me want to go back to my roots, hunt down some old stock 888's somewhere and listen to them again will all my new knowledge.
Trust me, I have all versions of the E888 and they don't sound anything like the R10. The CD3000 with upgraded cable does sound nice but still quite a good bit far away.
post #134 of 465
#0764 Bass light version here, loving them from The Menace
post #135 of 465

Recently I came across an R10 for sale, but the owner claimed that the leather case was slightly damaged on one specific location outside.  Is there any way I could still order a replacement from SONY or is that pretty much hopeless?

 

Also, how much do you guys think import/customs fee can be on these when shipped from the EU?

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