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Denon D2000/D5000, MD2000/MD5000 Appreciation Thread! - Page 170

post #2536 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryvadeum View Post

I kinda like the boominess though, however I think the texture could be a bit better.

I thought I liked the boominess too until I got the D600's, then I couldn't really stand how muddy the D5000's sounded in comparison anymore. If the D5000's were able to get the quality bass the D600's have, and tamed the treble a bit, then they'd be super awesome. But the mod doesn't really eliminate the 'boom-boom' factor; it still sounds 'boomy' and leaves enough to rattle your head, it just makes the bass a bit more controlled and less all-over-the-place.

If you like them how they are now though, then it's probably not worth it to mod them; it's really not that drastic of a difference (though definitely an improvement for my tastes).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dryvadeum View Post

Yeah, I would actually prefer all music to be instrumental as the vocals get in the way of everything. When I listen to music I mainly focus on the rhythm ensemble.

I'm the same way, except with guitars tongue.gif


Edited by oblique63 - 2/6/13 at 7:49pm
post #2537 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

I thought I liked the boominess too until I got the D600's, then I couldn't really stand how muddy the D5000's sounded in comparison anymore. If the D5000's were able to get the quality bass the D600's have, and tamed the treble a bit, then they'd be super awesome. But the mod doesn't really eliminate the 'boom-boom' factor; it still sounds 'boomy' and leaves enough to rattle your head, it just makes the bass a bit more controlled and less all-over-the-place.

If you like them how they are now though, then it's probably not worth it to mod them; it's really not that drastic of a difference (though definitely an improvement for my tastes).

 

I'm the same way, except with guitars tongue.gif

 

Quite surprised to hear these comments as to me the difference was quite drastic; before I was really on a verge of selling them so much I disliked that boomy, spreading into mids bass.

Have you performed the full mod based on this guide http://www.lawtonaudio.com/page55.html with extreme dynamat?

post #2538 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post

 

Quite surprised to hear these comments as to me the difference was quite drastic; before I was really on a verge of selling them so much I disliked that boomy, spreading into mids bass.

Have you performed the full mod based on this guide http://www.lawtonaudio.com/page55.html with extreme dynamat?

yep, did it all very thoroughly including the *optional* extra dampening specific to the D5000. Not to mention I upgraded the cups to neutral sounding Purpleheart ones as well.

It's definitely a noticeable improvement, don't get me wrong. But that full mod cost me more than my pair of D600's, and the bass still wasn't as good. I guess expecting the bass quality to improve that drastically was a bit of wishful thinking, so it probably colored my opinion. The mod version still has the same basic sound signature as the stock D5000's, so I don't feel comfortable calling it a night/day difference. If somebody likes the original D5000's, chances are that they'll most likely like the modded version as well (even with a preference for 'boomy-ness'), because they do sound very much 'related' to each other.

So in terms of soundstage and detail, the mod is definitely good, but with respect to bass... It's probably a better investment to get a beater pair of D600's for improved bass speed/texture/clarity (despite the dubious mids and treble).


Edited by oblique63 - 2/6/13 at 9:06pm
post #2539 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

yep, did it all very thoroughly including the *optional* extra dampening specific to the D5000. Not to mention I upgraded the cups to neutral sounding Purpleheart ones as well.

It's definitely a noticeable improvement, don't get me wrong. But that full mod cost me more than my pair of D600's, and the bass still wasn't as good. I guess expecting the bass quality to improve that drastically was a bit of wishful thinking, so it probably colored my opinion.

In terms of soundstage and detail, the mod is definitely good, but with respect to bass... It's probably a better investment to get a beater pair of D600's for improved bass speed/texture/clarity (despite the dubious mids and treble).


Wow, based on what you are saying D600 bass should be out of this world.

Wonder why they measure so bad then?

post #2540 of 3951
I think we just hear bass differently. I do not like AKG K271 or K701 as these have anemic bass impact to my ears. Some people like their sound and call the bass tight or refined, but it just doesn't work for me. I've listened to Denon D7000's on a couple of occasions, and I still preferred my D5000 with J$ pads to them, mostly because of the difference in bass.

I should be getting my Mad Dogs with dog pads this week, and I will be able to audition these to see if I hear anything special with the bass. These are supposed to be relatively neutral and nobody claims the bass is boomy, bloated, or all over the place. I've always preferred a somewhat V-shaped sound signature, and maybe I just found the ideal headphones for my taste?
post #2541 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


Wow, based on what you are saying D600 bass should be out of this world.

Wonder why they measure so bad then?

The bass doesn't. It's pretty solid and flat down to 1hz almost, with very gentile roll-off. And the 30hz square waves are also about as good as you can get. Can't say the same for the rest of the frequency range unfortunately, and the measured distortion levels are also pretty meh (though not audible). But check out the measurements for yourself.

It's really the mids, highs, soundstage, and 'beats-clone' looks (lol) that caused the new series to be flop. Which, when put into perspective, totally makes sense and they deserve a lot of the criticism that they get. But as far as bass goes, I haven't heard another can do bass as well as them below the LCD-2's (though, I have yet to try the D7100).

So don't expect a magical feeling when you first listen to them, as the mids alone will probably be so jarring you'll want to dismiss them right away. But when you give them a chance and pay attention to their bass, they're really hard to beat.


Edited by oblique63 - 2/6/13 at 9:19pm
post #2542 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznInvasion138 View Post

 

http://www.lawtonaudio.com/page13.html

 

Does anyone here have experience with the Angle Pads on the D5000's and where do you get the J$ pads from? I love the bass the D5K's produce, not sure what some of you are talking about. Its head shaking and clean all at the same time. Haven't heard anything else like it yet.

post #2543 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

The bass doesn't. It's pretty solid and flat down to 1hz almost, with very gentile roll-off. And the 30hz square waves are also about as good as you can get. Can't say the same for the rest of the frequency range unfortunately, and the measured distortion levels are also pretty meh (though not audible). But check out the measurements for yourself.

It's really the mids, highs, soundstage, and 'beats-clone' looks (lol) that caused the new series to be flop. Which, when put into perspective, totally makes sense and they deserve a lot of the criticism that they get. But as far as bass goes, I haven't heard another can do bass as well as them below the LCD-2's (though, I have yet to try the D7100).

So don't expect a magical feeling when you first listen to them, as the mids alone will probably be so jarring you'll want to dismiss them right away. But when you give them a chance and pay attention to their bass, they're really hard to beat.


May be I don't read waves right but they look same as from Beats and quite far from ideal 20hz square wave.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

Anyhow, it's all irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

post #2544 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


May be I don't read waves right but they look same as from Beats and quite far from ideal 20hz square wave.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

Anyhow, it's all irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

 

I'm reading it the same as you, very far from ideal and very beats-like.

 

Here's the LCD-2 (pretty much ideal):

 

 

The big difference is that the outward line goes far far too high with the D600 (much higher than the spike).


Edited by Taowolf51 - 2/6/13 at 9:45pm
post #2545 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

The bass doesn't. It's pretty solid and flat down to 1hz almost, with very gentile roll-off. And the 30hz square waves are also about as good as you can get. Can't say the same for the rest of the frequency range unfortunately, and the measured distortion levels are also pretty meh (though not audible). But check out the measurements for yourself.

It's really the mids, highs, soundstage, and 'beats-clone' looks (lol) that caused the new series to be flop. Which, when put into perspective, totally makes sense, and they deserve a lot of the criticism that they get. But as far as bass goes, I haven't heard another can do bass as well as them below the LCD-2's.

So don't expect a magical feeling when you first listen to them, as the mids alone will probably be so jarring you'll want to dismiss them right away. But when you give them a chance and pay attention to their bass, they're really hard to beat.

 

2nd that.

 

The Bass of the d600's is pretty nice but that's about it. The looks going from the beautiful D5000's

 

Here's mine

 

To some upgraded version of the Beats or Sol, or what ever other horrible Celebrity endorsed headphone was a huge mistake on their part. Not to mention they forgot to work on the rest of the sound spectrum (Just like those other brands) so that also is a major fail on their part. Hopefully next time they'll remember what made them famous and go back to quality cans that have the total wow factor from build, looks and most importantly sound.

 

To be honest, I should thank them. The value of my Denons shot way up after all the bad reviews came out. Stinks because I was wanting to find a decent used pair of D2000's but now they are selling for more used than they sold for new!

 

Bitter sweet I guess bigsmile_face.gif

post #2546 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


May be I don't read waves right but they look same as from Beats and quite far from ideal 20hz square wave.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

Anyhow, it's all irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

The beats graph is quite a bit more 'warble-y' than the denon's 30hz, but I guess that probably is the closest fit. From my own experience, the flatness of the square shape seems to correlate more with better bass to my ears than the sharpness of the edges. The edges do correlate a bit more with 'boomy' bass like Tyll mentions, but not consistently (according to the assessments on that page, the D5000's should probably have bass close to being as clear as the HD800's! LOL). So I don't know. I've heard it repeated quite a bit that square waves don't really correlate very well to the perceived sound, and while my experiences would make one think that I'd agree, I'm sure they're measuring something useful, I'm just not sure what exactly that is yet. Because while the D600's are boomy, they're also paradoxically quite clear (after breaking them in), and have more detailed bass than the D5000's.

But yeah, you're right; sorry to derail the thread. Back to business!


Edited by oblique63 - 2/7/13 at 12:17am
post #2547 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

The bass doesn't. It's pretty solid and flat down to 1hz almost, with very gentile roll-off. And the 30hz square waves are also about as good as you can get. Can't say the same for the rest of the frequency range unfortunately, and the measured distortion levels are also pretty meh (though not audible). But check out the measurements for yourself.

It's really the mids, highs, soundstage, and 'beats-clone' looks (lol) that caused the new series to be flop. Which, when put into perspective, totally makes sense and they deserve a lot of the criticism that they get. But as far as bass goes, I haven't heard another can do bass as well as them below the LCD-2's (though, I have yet to try the D7100).

So don't expect a magical feeling when you first listen to them, as the mids alone will probably be so jarring you'll want to dismiss them right away. But when you give them a chance and pay attention to their bass, they're really hard to beat.

That's really wierd cause I thought my la-2000 had better bass than an lcd-2.

post #2548 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by dluu View Post

I currently have the AD-700 with a xonar DX card to drive it.

 

Would upgrading to the LA-2000 be a huge leap? Also would the Xonar DX be able to drive the LA-2000? Thanks

Get ready to take a huge leap sir cause these are on their way to you tomorrow. I still think a magni/modi stack is a good idea in the near future as these are balls to the walls moded.

post #2549 of 3951

Oblique63 have you heard your la-5000's out of somthing other then your 02/odac, like a burson or woo. I haven't heard the d-600 but find it absolutly mind blowing that you think it has better bass. Also if you were going to do all that modding why didn't you just get the denon d2k instead of the 5k and save yourself $400? Probsibly why you weren't impressed by them.

post #2550 of 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by antimatter View Post

That's really wierd cause I thought my la-2000 had better bass than an lcd-2.

In terms of quantity, sure. But for quality? might find some strong opposition there. I've only tried the rev.1's and I wasn't exactly a fan due to their darkness, but their bass was certainly well textured and clear. But hey, everybody has a different set of ears...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antimatter View Post

Oblique63 have you heard your la-5000's out of somthing other then your 02/odac, like a burson or woo. I haven't heard the d-600 but find it absolutly mind blowing that you think it has better bass. Also if you were going to do all that modding why didn't you just get the denon d2k instead of the 5k and save yourself $400? Probsibly why you weren't impressed by them.

Well, not my modded ones, as I only modded them just about a month ago or so. But I have tried the stock D5000's out of a nice burson and a nuforce, but I find that the difference between good quality, transparent SS amps to be rather negligible (though I still hope to try those SPL amps some time). And I don't use tube amps, so I can't give you feedback there unfortunately. Let me make it clear though, that the difference between the D5000 and the D600 is far bigger than could ever be explained away with amp pairings anyway; they just sound fundamentally very different (hence a lot of people don't like the new series). To put it into perspective, I'd say the D5000 sounds closer to the DT770 than the D600 sounds to the D5000.

But let me emphasize once again, that I am talking strictly about the bass being good on the D600's. When I first got them and listened to them, the mids were so disappointingly bad they almost made me want to cry. I started getting them ready to be sent back literally within an hour of first listening to them. Luckily, I decided to take advantage of my generous return window and broke them in with loud pink noise for a couple days before listening to them again. After that, I was able to appreciate the bass on them, and decided that the bass alone was worth keeping them over, as they have the closest sound to a real studio sub-woofer of any sub $1000 can I've heard (do note that I have yet to try any ultrasones though, as those are supposed to be pretty good as well).

And while I did get the D5000's after they were already out of production, the price I got for them was an absolute steal at about $100 cheaper than the cheapest D2000 I found out there at the time. And I was definitely impressed with the stock D5000's when I first heard them, so I'm not sure where you're getting that I don't like them from. That's the reason why I wasn't even planning on modding them when I first got them, I just kinda felt pushed to do it after I heard the D600's, and hoped I could get at least similar bass on the better balanced can so that I could sell the D600's and be done with it. Alas, that wasn't what happened, and I've kept both. I will say that I listen to the D600's a lot more than the D5000's these days though. The mids still bother me, but since I have Hifimans and HD800's for that, I only find myself reaching for the Denons when I'm craving some serious bass, and the D600's deliver that.


Edited by oblique63 - 2/7/13 at 12:14am
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