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Markl-type Mods on Denon AH-D1001 (&D1000) - Page 3

post #31 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buranko View Post
sorry, dumb question. What is dynamat actually? Sound isolator?

And after you're installing dynamat, is it only tightening the bass? or also improving the noise isolation?

Sankyu!
Dynamat is vibration damping material. Installed in the Denon earcups, it tightens loose bass, which is easily noticeable. It seems like it also improves isolation, although that change is subtle. If your objective is real isolation from ambient noise, installing Dynamat in the Denon phones won't give you that.
post #32 of 58
EDIT: Lol, you beat me to the punch there. Well, I'll leave up my response to his question anyway in case it helps any (and in case I have any misunderstandings here that could use correcting...)

Well, the manufacturer calls it a "space age plastic" (I think they aren't aware of the fact that it's not "hip" to call everything "space age" anymore...) According to wikipedia, this sort of product uses various things such as rubberized asphalt and that seems a little more believable than some sort of plastic, but regardless, it gets the job done. If you look at car audio on Wikipedia you will see some other reputable brands as well: Car audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically what it does is it reduces the distortion. Normally the sound can actually cause the casing to shake which in turn distorts the sound by adding/removing its own vibrations. Most high end headphones are better designed to prevent this sadly. Unfortunately, Denon seems to have put every single penny of their research into designing the speakers themselves or something I guess because low quality build is the bane of the AH-D series. The idea here is to use something like this that can prevent the sound from getting distorted by the casing. It has a thin sheet on top (I guess aluminum?) that can reflect the sound so it doesn't just get absorbed and lost and then under that is the absorbant material so that vibrations are minimized. The end result is a much cleaner bass that interferes less with the sound.


BTW, has anyone tried something closer to the full Markl-mod on the AH-D1001/1000s? Eg, covering the inside around the speaker itself as well, though I also include in this covering more of the inside of the cup (I have nearly every open area covered.) I finally got brave enough to try it a few days ago. The first thing I noticed is that it's really important not to cover the two little holes next to the speaker, lol (the sound turned very flat and weak. Well, I guess that's kind of a duh moment for me there.) I think it helped the sound a bit more and I think I really like the sound of it after this. The bass is a bit more subdued (though still strong when things really use it and still able to make the casing vibrate, so I guess my modding still isn't perfect) but I think overall I like the sound of it like this a little better. The only catch is that for some reason if I have it turned up too much by accident it gets bad distortion for some odd reason. Well, I don't normally turn it up that loud anyway (this was just when switching between differently mastered discs with no replaygain in effect) so I think maybe it's ok. Has anyone else tried it who can maybe comment on it though? I don't exactly have audiophile-trained ears here. Of course, some of it is that I just absolutely can't seem to get the stuffing at exactly the right balance (I think I'm at least fairly close to right this time around though.) In particular, I'm wondering if maybe I'm just not noticing much smaller scale distortion at normal volumes? It seems like I would, but it's hard to say since, as I said, I don't really have audiophile ears.

EDIT: Correction. There are more than two holes on each speaker. I knew something still wasn't right. Be absolutely certain not to cover any of them or it won't really be quite as good. I ended up having to pull off all of the Dynamat I had on the inside part due to this mistake since they just didn't sound right with any holes covered. I haven't gotten around to putting some back on there because I finally decided to buy AH-D2000s and it just isn't worth the trouble I think.
post #33 of 58
wah, thank you for the explanation.

One more question, about the adhesive side. Is it like permanently stick on the cup? Once you installed it, can you remove it without leaving sticky stains on it?

And anyway, anyone here has Dynamat leftover? say half of the original size 5x5" -- probably, i can buy it for say half price and less (+/- 5$), and just send it with envelope + 41 cents stamp, ahahaha.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buranko View Post
One more question, about the adhesive side. Is it like permanently stick on the cup? Once you installed it, can you remove it without leaving sticky stains on it?
It's not a problem. It's a sort of sticky gummy sort of thing that will stick to surfaces, but tends to hold together more. When you pull it off, it may break up a little, but it definitely will not become impossible to remove. I don't think it would stain or anything either.

Quote:
And anyway, anyone here has Dynamat leftover? say half of the original size 5x5" -- probably, i can buy it for say half price and less (+/- 5$), and just send it with envelope + 41 cents stamp, ahahaha.
Just grab the normal pack. It's nice to have extra. For example, I bought a cheap little speaker for use on things like my DS when I don't care about quality much (btw, the DS can power the AH-D1001 amazingly well! It's a little quiet, but not bad and the bass is still pretty strong for such a weak system, yeah, it's not a great system for quality, but some games like Oendan still benefit from headphones and they might as well be great quality comfortable headphones, right?) and I applied this technique to it to reduce distortions somewhat (though I found that I had to leave a bit of distortion in for it to do what it does best.) When I went back just a few days ago and started filling up the remaining areas, I finally used up the last of that first sheet. I can see definite uses for this stuff in the future and I'm glad I didn't just get one sheet or something.

If it were $50 or something I'd say go ahead and look for one sheet somewhere, but it's not really THAT terribly expensive.
post #35 of 58
I just installed dynamat.

For the love of cow, that was the most... tiring 1.5 hours in my life.

I was fully concentrate when trying to pull the wire inside the cup to get several inches before I start doing my work. Those fragile pairs were driven me nut.... x_X

But yea, haha the bass is "vibrating" -- can't really explain it. I had a bass dissatisfaction before when I wear this denon, compared to my V6 which has the better detail in bass.

EDIT: I just compared side to side, lol, modded denon is overpowering V6 for sure from all aspect. -- I know how it's too much , but i'm enjoying it

The only thing is, it gets heavier.

I have a question, why don't you put dynamat around the outside area of the speaker as well? (right next around that quarter hole.)
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buranko View Post
But yea, haha the bass is "vibrating" -- can't really explain it. I had a bass dissatisfaction before when I wear this denon, compared to my V6 which has the better detail in bass.
Make sure you have the right amount of padding. It's a bit tough to get it just right I think. Each time I mess with my mod it takes me three tries to get it right again and if it's not right it can sound pretty bad IMO. (Especially I can't stand when there isn't enough padding. The bass may be what some have described as punchier, but it's also a lot rougher on the ears IMO.)

Quote:
I have a question, why don't you put dynamat around the outside area of the speaker as well? (right next around that quarter hole.)
That probably won't significantly help, but there's certainly no harm in trying it. If you REALLY want to improve things, probably the next best thing you could do is try to make better cups for it, but obviously that would be tricky to do (I've seen someone in this forum make new cups for one of the Denons though. I think they were making better wooden ones for the 5000s, but I forget.) There's just only so much that you can do with Dynamat. Also, you might want to try doing like I did and taking the mod a bit closer to the full Markl mod instead of the partial mod being done here (namely, fill as much as you can of the inner cup and put some in the inside part as well as it too vibrates -- just remember, don't cover those two little holes...)


BTW, on the weight, you have to admit that even a Markl-modded Denon is still a light easy to wear headphone...
post #37 of 58
Whew... that was fun and frustrating! I finished installing Dynamat... so far I'm really liking how my D1001 sounds now. The bass, when paired with my Meizu, wasn't very... "big". Now I find that the bass is to my liking. More prominent and better defined. There wasn't a drastic change, but I'm really liking how it sounds, even without stuffing. I'm slightly concerned though, as my Dynamat was deformed looking when I cut it out, not completely filling the cup. Does the shape matter?

Now... I'm ready to recable these! Waiting for my solder and cable equipment to come...

I have a quick question. Are there eight little pads on each driver? It seemed like there are two pads for the +, and two for the minus. I'm unsure if I should bridge them or keep the solder contained into that tiny area. It will be difficult... since this will also be my first soldering job.

Edit: Changed wording
post #38 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyFalcon View Post
I'm slightly concerned though, as my Dynamat was deformed looking when I cut it out, not completely filling the cup. Does the shape matter?

Now... I'm ready to recable these! Waiting for my solder and cable equipment to come...

I have a quick question. Are there eight little pads on each driver? It seemed like there are two pads for the +, and two for the minus. I'm unsure if I should bridge them or keep the solder contained into that tiny area. It will be difficult... since this will also be my first soldering job.
The exact shape of the Dynamat isn't critical, as long as you make sure that it is completely stuck down to the surface of the cup. You don't want any Dynamat hanging in space.

If you've never soldered before, you should practice, practice, practice, with a few pieces of wire and some junk circuit boards before you attempt to recable your headphones.

When you do it for real, you want to keep the solder contained on the small tabs. Do not bridge it to adjacent tabs. Practice soldering ahead of time until you are comfortable doing it that precisely.
post #39 of 58
I was going to bring my refrigerator's motherboard from home to practice on... but I'm not too fond of the caps. I don't want to get shocked by them.

I'll walk around my university's electrical department and scrounge up some boards and wire. Practicing is something I always fail to do...
post #40 of 58
One little tip. I discovered that I can solder with 10x more precision once I switched to an ultra-fine (0.022 dia) silver bearing solder from RadioShack. It's very much not lead-free, so it's not good to breath it in obviously, but I'm finding that I am getting things done with far more precision and more quickly. I'm using a grounded 15 watt soldering iron with a somewhat precision tip also from RadioShack (mind you, grounded is unnecessary in an application like this, but I had to get a new soldering iron anyway, so there was no reason not to get one for all tasks.) If you do this, it's probably best to wear a mask. It does work far far better than normal thickness solder (plus I think the silver maybe helps a bit as well. Certainly it's better than plain tin solder as far as conductivity goes, but also I think this kind seems to stick more easily.)

I am curious if it really does matter if you bridge the connections though. I don't think I did (I'm not opening them up just to look, lol. Every time I open them up I mess something up,) but I never got the impression that the other contact was really connected to anything at all. I suspect it was just a holdover from an earlier design. Maybe they had a resistor there or something? Just a thought anyway.

Now I just want to figure out a way to do some sort of breakaway cord. I was thinking of maybe gold plated RCA phono jacks since these should hold up pretty well over time, but I can't find any that would integrate well (I can't find any that seem properly designed for a minimalist application -- most stick out quite a bit.) Has anyone ever done this with the 1001/1000s? Mostly I'm just thinking this would be more convenient.
post #41 of 58
hey guys,

Just been thinking about doing this mod to my Sennheiser HD215. Any reason why i shouldn't? I could probably do a cable mod for it to but that will be easy as it has a detachable mini plug on the left speaker.

So yeh, should I just go ahead and dynamat phones?

thanks
post #42 of 58
Bit of a late reply I know, but no one else had anything to say and I had intended to leave it maybe to those who better understand exactly how the Dynamat affects the sound. Sorry if it's too late to do any good for you.

I tried it on other things like that portable speaker I mentioned. It looks like the method itself is sound. However, it won't work quite right on all things. In fact, one portable speaker I tried it on actually seems to count on the reverberation or something because it changed more than the bass when I tried it and made the sound far worse overall. (Well, this is what you get with cheap stuff, lol.)

I think there's no harm in trying it at all. The biggest problem here is the materials Denon is using, but it's entirely possible you could see similar issues on just about any closed headphones. Especially those that aren't particularly heavy as part of the problem is the lightness of the materials used. The only way to be 100% sure is to try it probably. The up side of this is that the Dynamat is 100% removable. You have to be a bit careful around fabrics and such, but it should be possible to pull it all out if it doesn't work. I note that Sennheiser is describing these as being quite rugged and they look fairly thick to me, so I'm not sure if this mod will help or not. If I had these and was dissatisfied with the bass though, I'd probably try it and see what would happen.

As I've noted in my earlier attempt to take this mod further, be absolutely sure not to cover any holes though.
post #43 of 58
Hey, I'm kinda new hear but I just got the denon 1001. I like it a lot but the treble is a little harsh and the bass doesn't quite have as much punch as I'd like. I'd like to do this mod and recable them as described in the rewire thread but I've never modded headphones before and I'm worried I might break them. Is there anyone who'd be willing to do this for me?
Thanks
post #44 of 58
I just got my D1001s. I listenened to them for 5 minutes and proceeded to recable and damp them. I bought them knowing I would do this. I really like these cans. It might just be "new toy" syndrome but I think these might have some staying power. Before the mod I thought that my ES7 might possibly have a sound that would end up being preferable. After the mod, I don't think so. The Denons are smooth. I am a big believer in well designed, controlled experiments. Making reliable statements about how the sound changed would be silly but...I'm pretty darned sure (like 84%) that the highs are nidely improved and (99.2%) that the bass doesn't sound as much like a mudslide (err, you know, the way denon cans sound before they are fixed). IMO the mod if VERY worthwhile. These cans aren't the most resolving, most extended, most punchy or most anything. What they are is easy to listen to, enjoyable, non-fatiguing, comfortable, and just the right balance between "balanced" and "fun". FWIW, the ES7 still beats them on bass but for me that is where it stops now. The ES7 is otherwise crazy colored and after listening to my spiffy new D1001s they are going on the shelf. For what these are and what they do and what I paid for them I like them much more than I do my D2000. (The D2000 are unmodded and are their way out the door because I just don't think there is any way I'll prefer them to the K701.)

I made my cable really short, about 24", because I intend these to terminate in my shirt pocket most of the time. The result is that I have to use a (q-jays) extension to get from my chair to my amp. I am now a believer, for sure, of cable making a difference. That extension has a definite effect on the highs (maybe more but definitely highs). Funny that it might actually be a good thing for making some cans less fatiguing.

Another helpful fact for anyone wanting to play with these. Once you get the baffle board out of the shells it is very easy to get the shells off of the headband. This makes it a lot easier to work on them. You just have the have the shells rotated all the way so that they register against the forks of the can and then you can pull the forks out. The ends of the forks are keyed so don't try to pull them out when they aren't rotated into the correct position. When reassembling you MUST put the headband back on before you put the baffle boards (i.e. drivers) back in. The baffle boards lock the headband into the cups.

I took pictures but my camera is a POS and the pictures were not good. Oh well.
post #45 of 58
I forgot to mention...

I didn't damp the driver, just the cups. What exactly would the expected effect be? On person mentioned it slowing them down but this doesn't exactly make sense to me. If anything it seems like it *should* speed them up.

I put about as much polyfill in there as is shown in post #1. What are the expected effects of increasing and decreasing the amount of this stuff in there? I could still do with a little less boom and a little more punch but I would hesitate to give up any extension.

A/Bing with the K701. Yes, they are outclassed. They really compliment each other. These remind me a lot of the HD650 (obviously they aren't on par).

Cheers,
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